Reopening America ?

[Ken7]

First off my post was in response to the parachute analogy, not some 'credible sources'. Second, I think even you'd agree that we've learned quite a lot since the 1918 pandemic. So I don't believe there would be a repeat of what happened in Denver & St. Louis over 100 years ago with the technology we have today.

It's also interesting that you think those that are looking to reopen more quickly are those with a political agenda. But it's not possible that those that want to keep the economy closed for a protracted period of time couldn't possibly have a political agenda themselves? No, not possible. It couldn't possibly be that a failing economy would work in the favor of the out party vs the in party. Nah, not possible. Out of curiosity, who do you think it is that's behind the 'liberate rallies'? Just asking.

Isn't it interesting how there could be two sides to a story?

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[ChasingCoral]

First off my post was in response to the parachute analogy, not some 'credible sources'. Second, I think even you'd agree that we've learned quite a lot since the 1918 pandemic. So I don't believe there would be a repeat of what happened in Denver & St. Louis over 100 years ago with the technology we have today.

Yes, but those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

It's also interesting that you think those that are looking to reopen more quickly are those with a political agenda. But it's not possible that those that want to keep the economy closed for a protracted period of time couldn't possibly have a political agenda themselves? No, not possible. It couldn't possibly be that a failing economy would work in the favor of the out party vs the in party. Nah, not possible. Out of curiosity, who do you think it is that's behind the 'liberate rallies'? Just asking.

Isn't it interesting how there could be two sides to a story?

So why do you choose to misquote me? I didn't say think those that are looking to reopen more quickly are those with a political agenda. I said:

The real problem here is a lack of patience being fueled by rabble rousers with political agendas. The folks behind the liberate rallies aren't looking out for the economy, they just know what buttons to push to incite easily swayed masses.

My point is the liberate rallies are being pushed by those with political agendas. In fact, it's the same folks with a new flag.

Who's behind the rallies? That's easy to find out because it's already been researched for you:
Michigan:

• The protest there was organized by the Michigan Conservative Coalition, a group founded by a pro-Trump state representative and his wife, Meshawn Maddock, who is on the advisory board for an official Trump campaign group called “Women for Trump" and is also the co-founder of Michigan Trump Republicans. Their daughter is a field organizer for the Michigan Republican Party.
• Another group that promoted the event, the Michigan Freedom Fund, is run by Greg McNeilly, a longtime political adviser to the DeVos family

Texas:

• Other gatherings have links to fringe groups. A protest Thursday in the Texas capital of Austin, where protesters chanted “Free Texas” and “Make America Free Again,” was broadcast live by InfoWars TV, part of a company owned by conspiracy theorist and radio host Alex Jones.

Virginia:

• A protest in Richmond, Virginia, on Thursday grew out of a conversation in the Facebook group Virginians for Medical Freedom, organizer Gary Golden said. The group often turns out at the Capitol in Richmond to oppose vaccine-related measures.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coro...0200417-7oad7qhicrc53eywjaclwdsaoq-story.html

There are more articles out there that show these are the same old groups who know how to incite fear and fire up their masses for whatever agenda they think can further their causes.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/18/coronavirus-americans-protest-stay-at-home

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...acebook-groups-push-anti-quarantine-protests/

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/behind-reopen-businesses-protests.html

 

[pbojanoski]

It's quite unfortunately that so many people think the economy is more important than the community. Money is an abstraction, lives are real.

How many lives will be destroyed and lost completely in a failed economy?

 

[Ken7]

Yes, but those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

With all our medical experts chiming in on a daily basis, I don't think that's likely.

So why do you choose to misquote me? I didn't say think those that are looking to reopen more quickly are those with a political agenda. I said:

Actually I didn't misquote you because that's basically what you said! I don't see much of a distinction between what you said, "The real problem here is a lack of patience being fueled by rabble rousers with political agendas" and how I characterized it.

The rest of your post and others can be characterized by simply saying, 'Trump supporters bad, conservatives bad, conservative media bad and can't be trusted.'

 

[Ken7]

How many lives will be destroyed and lost completely in a failed economy?

Pete, don't you understand this yet, those don't count and shouldn't be factored into the equation. Once you understand that, you can grasp the thrust of some of these posts. Some have blinders on that simply won't come off.

 

[pbojanoski]

Yes, in fact these are daily stories. Here are the articles from today's Washington Post, section A, print edition. Why the Post? It's my local paper and the one delivered. It's where I start my news for the day, not where I end it. No, it's not perfect but it serves as an example that these stories are out there -- the answer to your question:

Front page:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/20/oil-barrel-below-zero/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...chains-helped-run-small-business-program-dry/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...855638-831b-11ea-ae26-989cfce1c7c7_story.html

Inside:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...-tens-millions-into-poverty-new-report-warns/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a3ef24-7eb4-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...10231a-8324-11ea-a3eb-e9fc93160703_story.html

So, yes, the media is covering the economic and social fallout from this crisis.

With the same hype and "end of the world" hysteria as the virus? Are they saying more people could die in an economic depression than this virus could ever inflict?

 

[pbojanoski]

I found this amusing. Examples of this kind of hypocrisy abound.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/our-garbage-media.php

That there is hypocrisy in media is so obvious it is laughable. This is not a partisan statement, it is just the way it is. All media are biased and should not be trusted. It is all we have, but it is a REQUIREMENT to do your own due diligence. Ignore articles with clear commentary, which unfortunately is probably most stories. They don't respect you if they feel they need to tell you how to interpret the news. Leave those news sources behind and find some that keep commentary, unnamed sources, and one sided quotes to a minimum.

News media is a money making operation. They pick a niche and try to make money off of them by telling them what they want to hear. Facts and reality be damned.

 

[pbojanoski]

Credible sources aren't saying we keep the economy shut down until every last case is over. What we don't want to do is make the problem even worse. That's what they did in St. Louis and Denver in 1918 (figure 3A below from Markel et al 2007 JAMA). By reopening too fast, their second peak in deaths was worse than the first.

The real problem here is a lack of patience being fueled by rabble rousers with political agendas. The folks behind the liberate rallies aren't looking out for the economy, they just know what buttons to push to incite easily swayed masses.

That was 100 years ago. Did they have the media and testing and treatments and PPE, etc. that we have now? Do we have to go with the lowest common denominator or can we act smart and expect most people to be responsible and do the right thing?

That is the bottom line. Either you believe people will do the right thing or you believe people are dumb and need to be herded by the smart ruling class. Which is it?

 

[pbojanoski]

Pete, don't you understand this yet, those don't count and shouldn't be factored into the equation. Once you understand that, you can grasp the thrust of some of these posts. Some have blinders on that simply won't come off.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of it is a very narrow view of the world around them. That they feel comfortable riding out this lockdown means it isn't a big deal. That millions will literally die or have their lives destroyed due to the economic carnage, yes carnage, is clearly not on their radar. It must be nice to be comfortable and think your future is secure, but for a large portion of this country, especially those at the lower economic end of society, this economic crisis will be a killer to lives and livelihoods. We are literally digging our own graves right now and most don't notice it.

 

[Sweetwater]

I don't know what to say anymore. All of you have good points. Don't let
these posts drive us to hatred to one another. We will all act the way we
feel is right going forward. We won't change each other's minds on the way
of how to go about and do this. We are all different and will approach the
opening up how WE see is best for us. We have waited very long and now we
must start the economy. The Southern states will shed light on this soon.
I do think they opened the valve too much too fast.

 

[Sweetwater]

You said this already. We are moving forward. Don't post old news please. D-

 

[CobraKaiSG]

I generally never discuss anything political with people because i tend to think it's really hard to convince people but i am glad to see that it looks like everyone on here is being respectful when they disagree, which i think is great. personally, i just am really tired of the lockdown and ready to get back out there. At times, i'm so frustrated by this current situation that it makes me question it and at times i accept that there may not be much way to speed it up. I have never had much faith in government, regardless of party. they're generally the last people i'd want to have help me with anything! i'm just hoping it will be safe to reopen soon! i'm over it!

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