Report: Mach-E GT orders opening late April

[Thor2j]

Thanks was just going on the chart as original posted, still would prefer the top speed was upped regardless if I am only legally allowed to do it in one country in the world or on a track so it appears competitive in regards to the model Y, as really want ford to go all in and produce a true performance derivative not a warmed over premium to justify the price increase and range reduction.

It's because of the tires. Raptor is limited to 106 mph all because the tires.

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[silvercurves-1]

I noticed that both premium and GT (even the Performance Edition) have the same 88KWH battery. Does that mean they all have the same hardware and power output is really mostly driven by software? If so, I wonder if Ford would separately sell performance software for couple grand to Premium owners to achieve similar performance in the future? I think that's what Tesla did with their model 3/Y recently.

Found this article:

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tes...-y-long-range-awd-is-a-noticeable-improvement

https://electrek.co/2020/06/10/tesla-hacker-unlocks-performance-upgrade-acceleration-boost/

 

[EdY]

I noticed that both premium and GT (even the Performance Edition) have the same 88KWH battery. Does that mean they all have the same hardware and power output is really mostly driven by software? If so, I wonder if Ford would separately sell performance software for couple grand to Premium owners to achieve similar performance in the future? I think that's what Tesla did with their model 3/Y recently.

Found this article:

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tes...-y-long-range-awd-is-a-noticeable-improvement

https://electrek.co/2020/06/10/tesla-hacker-unlocks-performance-upgrade-acceleration-boost/

Not true. The premium and GT have the same rear motor, but the front motor on the GT is a twin of the rear motor, while the premium has a much smaller motor up front.

 

[silvercurves-1]

Not true. The premium and GT have the same rear motor, but the front motor on the GT is a twin of the rear motor, while the premium has a much smaller motor up front.

Got it - thanks!

 

[buzznwood]

It's because of the tires. Raptor is limited to 106 mph all because the tires.

Ford can't be that daft can they? As that would make the 124mph limit be due to using h-spec tires which have absolutely no place being on any vehicle with performance in the name, using p-zeros as the summer performance tire is already bad enough no need to compound the problem.

 

[jamelski]

Just put a res on mine can’t wait to have this bad boy sit next to my yellow 2015 GT stang ?

 

[phidauex]

It's because of the tires. Raptor is limited to 106 mph all because the tires.

Hmm, that makes sense on a vehicle with large off-road tires (the idea of driving my '97 Tacoma in expedition kit at 106 mph is terrifying), but that shouldn't be the limiting factor at all for a vehicle with summer road tires. My assumption was that the limit was actually due to the single-speed transmission and the maximum RPM of the motors. If they geared it for a higher top speed then they would be giving up lower end torque. That would look good on the spec sheets for top speed, but then 0-60 would increase, and more importantly, the car would feel slower day to day, all for a situation that almost never comes up (full top speed).

Now granted if they make a true track-car version of the Mach E then they'll need to up the top speed, but even the GT PE doesn't seem like a "track car" so much as a badass family car that you can take to the track.

EDIT - a little math:

Ok, we have a 28.75" wheel diameter (either stock tire option). The Premium has two IDMs (integrated drive modules), the rear has a ratio of 9.05, and the front has 10.0. The IDM from Borg Warner supposedly has a maximum input RPM of 13,800.

So the Premium AWD has a claimed max speed of 111 mph. That would be limited by the front IDM, which would be running the motor at 12,972 RPM at 111 mph, which is awfully close to "redline" on the IDM. The motors are probably also running quite low on power at that point being subjected to significant field weakening (guessing here).

The GT, if we are correct that it has the same rear IDM as the Premium, and another of the same bigger IDM up front, then its max speed would be limited by the 9.05 drive ratio rather than the 10.0 drive ratio. At the claimed max speed, the GT will be spinning its motors at 13,115 RPM at 124 mph.

Giddy up, mofos.

 

[silverelan]

I noticed that both premium and GT (even the Performance Edition) have the same 88KWH battery. Does that mean they all have the same hardware and power output is really mostly driven by software? If so, I wonder if Ford would separately sell performance software for couple grand to Premium owners to achieve similar performance in the future? I think that's what Tesla did with their model 3/Y recently.

Found this article:

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tes...-y-long-range-awd-is-a-noticeable-improvement

https://electrek.co/2020/06/10/tesla-hacker-unlocks-performance-upgrade-acceleration-boost/

There was a good thread about the motors a while back.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...rated-drive-module-for-mach-e.1203/post-27845

 

[phidauex]

There was a good thread about the motors a while back.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...rated-drive-module-for-mach-e.1203/post-27845

Some good info there. One thing I didn't see noted is that the power ratings of the IDMs may be derated from their maximum, especially on the GT. At 459 HP (342 kW), the battery will be pulling ~3.4C from the battery, which is very high for a battery of this design. The motors could probably go higher, maybe as much as 580 hp (430 kW) but the thermal hit on the batteries would be very high (remember that thermal impacts to batteries and electrical equipment increase with the square of power, so that would be 60% more heat than 342 kW). Probably not wise for this chemistry if Ford intends to actually make it past the 8 year warranty.

Since these are all controlled by power electronics, they can just dial down the current flow to whatever value they deem acceptable, so you could have two 216kW motors, but with one or both having their maximum power reduced.

 

[buzznwood]

The GT, if we are correct that it has the same rear IDM as the Premium, and another of the same bigger IDM up front, then its max speed would be limited by the 9.05 drive ratio rather than the 10.0 drive ratio. At the claimed max speed, the GT will be spinning its motors at 13,115 RPM at 124 mph.

Makes more sense than tires, while it won't be a deal breaker it is a rather disappointing top speed compared to model Y, guess we will see what is changed / upgraded when we get to see the final specs was hoping with performance in the name we would be getting more of a performance ford make over in the mold of the puma ST in regards to the extent of changes over the non performance models rather than the Edge ST which is so far removed from what is required for the ST name it was nothing more than a branding & cosmetic exercise

 

[silverelan]

I've been wondering about the heat issue. If the GT/GTP is worthy of its badging, you'd think that Ford Performance would rework the cooling loops in the pack and motors to increase endurance under heavy loads.

Heiser and his team have to be well aware that the Model S/X quickly cut the available power due to overheating so presumably they've taken steps to not let the GT fall flat on its face the same way.

 

[phidauex]

I've been wondering about the heat issue. If the GT/GTP is worthy of its badging, you'd think that Ford Performance would rework the cooling loops in the pack and motors to increase endurance under heavy loads.

Heiser and his team have to be well aware that the Model S/X quickly cut the available power due to overheating so presumably they've taken steps to not let the GT fall flat on its face the same way.

I'd be surprised if they rework the pack itself, but they could still try to increase coolant flow, maybe with more powerful pumps. It will be interesting to see what small parts differences there are in the final configuration.

In all of these EV cases the maximum power won't be sustained for long. At full power the batteries could be dissipating 50+kW of power, which would heat up incredibly fast. Though this is a potentially useful feature of EVs - their surge power can be far higher than their continuous power, which isn't something you'd see in an ICE vehicle.

I think the dance is to set a maximum power that you can actually sustain for a meaningful period of time, while keeping your warranty in mind. I'm concerned that Tesla (in both their grid applications and cars) is way out over their skis on warranty obligation, and they probably know full well that they will have to pay out tons of battery replacements in the future, and hope that the benefits of higher specs today outweigh the costs of tomorrow...

 

[silverelan]

I'd be surprised if they rework the pack itself, but they could still try to increase coolant flow, maybe with more powerful pumps. It will be interesting to see what small parts differences there are in the final configuration.

In all of these EV cases the maximum power won't be sustained for long. At full power the batteries could be dissipating 50+kW of power, which would heat up incredibly fast. Though this is a potentially useful feature of EVs - their surge power can be far higher than their continuous power, which isn't something you'd see in an ICE vehicle.

I think the dance is to set a maximum power that you can actually sustain for a meaningful period of time, while keeping your warranty in mind. I'm concerned that Tesla (in both their grid applications and cars) is way out over their skis on warranty obligation, and they probably know full well that they will have to pay out tons of battery replacements in the future, and hope that the benefits of higher specs today outweigh the costs of tomorrow...

VW does a sort of power boost for their Audi, Porsche, and Cupra EVs. Maybe Ford will do something similar for the GT?

As for the cooling, they must have learned some things playing around with the Cobra jet and 1400. Increasing the coolant flow seems like the easiest thing to do. The dohickeys that move electrons from the pack to the motors are probably beefier too for heat resistance.

Man, so many questions we have about the GT! I really hope that they reveal the options soon. I'm dying to know.

 

[Thor2j]

Hmm, that makes sense on a vehicle with large off-road tires (the idea of driving my '97 Tacoma in expedition kit at 106 mph is terrifying), but that shouldn't be the limiting factor at all for a vehicle with summer road tires. My assumption was that the limit was actually due to the single-speed transmission and the maximum RPM of the motors. If they geared it for a higher top speed then they would be giving up lower end torque. That would look good on the spec sheets for top speed, but then 0-60 would increase, and more importantly, the car would feel slower day to day, all for a situation that almost never comes up (full top speed).

Now granted if they make a true track-car version of the Mach E then they'll need to up the top speed, but even the GT PE doesn't seem like a "track car" so much as a badass family car that you can take to the track.

EDIT - a little math:

Ok, we have a 28.75" wheel diameter (either stock tire option). The Premium has two IDMs (integrated drive modules), the rear has a ratio of 9.05, and the front has 10.0. The IDM from Borg Warner supposedly has a maximum input RPM of 13,800.

So the Premium AWD has a claimed max speed of 111 mph. That would be limited by the front IDM, which would be running the motor at 12,972 RPM at 111 mph, which is awfully close to "redline" on the IDM. The motors are probably also running quite low on power at that point being subjected to significant field weakening (guessing here).

The GT, if we are correct that it has the same rear IDM as the Premium, and another of the same bigger IDM up front, then its max speed would be limited by the 9.05 drive ratio rather than the 10.0 drive ratio. At the claimed max speed, the GT will be spinning its motors at 13,115 RPM at 124 mph.

Giddy up, mofos.

The gt comes on all seasons the gt competition comes on summer tires. Note the difference it top speed.

 

[RetiredDP]

Does anyone know how Mageneride works - does it allow ride height adjustment manually? Or is it purely dampening?

Magneride variably changes the viscosity of the shocks, to affect stiffness. Does nothing to affect height.

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