Solar Power-Zero Emissions

[Vulnox]

Also be aware, if you sell your house, solar is not usually a good selling point. After qualifying for home loan, buyer also must qualify for remaining solar loan or lease. Bank may not qualify buyer with this additional loan. Even if paid for, seldom or ever do you get any additional in selling price of house. Just another thing to be aware of.

To be clear on this, solar leases are an issue whether you sell the house or not, and can be burden when selling to someone else. Avoid leases.

If you take out a loan for the solar panels that is NOT a burden on the selling process, and realtors overwhelmingly say that selling a home with solar panels (not on lease) is easier and a home with panels is more likely to sell for a premium asking price than one without.

Not a guarantee of higher resale value, but a better chance of some increase and a better chance of your home selling ahead of another in the area without them, especially if you can prove out savings from the panels by historical electric bills.

You wouldn't expect the buyer to assume a loan on panels any more than you would a loan you took out to install a pool or fence, so that part is not relevant. But just like a vehicle lease, trying to get someone to assume that is a headache. Avoid leases.

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[Vulnox]

We have a 31 panel rooftop solar array in SE Michigan that went active at the end of 2021. It has been a huge benefit, especially since our electric provider (DTE) has raised rates I believe three times since then.

As others noted, it's important you check pricing and rebate eligibility before installing solar, and should NOT do a lease. If you need to finance the panels, check if your state has energy efficient loan programs. In Michigan we have a group called "Michigan Saves" that partners with local banks/CUs to get the best rates for energy improvement programs. We paid part of our solar install in cash and part with a loan from them and the rate was 2.9%. Most of it was paid off when we got our federal tax credit so we are just going through the remainder.

Understanding your local utility provider rate program and net metering participation is key as well. With DTE they don't have true net metering, you get paid the retail rate of the electricity used but do not get paid the "transport" cost of electricity. Which is the cost to maintain the wiring/transformers/transport infrastructure that delivers electricity.

So if we generated 50kWh today and 30kWh was consumed by us and 20kWh was exported, we would get 20kWh times whatever the time of use rate was during the day.

If we consumed 5kWh that day from the grid, say before the sun came up and then at night, we would pay 5 times whatever the time of use rate is plus 5 times the transport cost. I think it's around 2 or 3 cents per kWh.

So we get credit for the electricity cost itself, but not that transport cost. So it is a form of net metering, but not "true" net metering. This impacts your break even timeline.

That said, the price increases by DTE have more than surpassed the cost of that transport cost on its own and we get that same rate when we send electricity back to the grid. And since we use time of use where electricity costs are higher between 11am-7pm, prime solar time, we actually get more credit during that time for the solar we send out. Because of that, we charge the car after 7pm. While we charge the car from the grid at that point, it's at a significantly lower rate and we wipe out that cost and then some from the electricity we sold back during mid-day.

I know that's confusing, but it's part of what has to be considered when buying the array. I am glad we got it, and so far today we've already Net Exported 9.7kWh. We have Enphase microinverters and it gives a value estimate of electricity we produce based on utility rates, it's nice to see that build each day.

 

[Side Show Bob]

I'm sure alot of us have considered Solar. For those of you who have done it. Can you go over the Cost, size and the savings benefit to Solar to help push some of us over the edge. Also if you had a good experience with your company/installer, a good referral is always welcome. Thx!!

 

[Side Show Bob]

I'm sure alot of us have considered Solar. For those of you who have done it. Can you go over the Cost, size and the savings benefit to Solar to help push some of us over the edge. Also if you had a good experience with your company/installer, a good referral is always welcome. Thx!!

Well I first bought my Mache July 2 2022. I installed a level two charger at my home. The extra charge per month was $125.00 on my electric bill. The Mache replaced an Acura MDX . My gasoline bill averaged $400 per month. Savings $275.00 per month. Next installed solar with battery back up. Well first started with Tesla. Put down $250 to start the process. They were the cheapest. And then I found out why. All the extra cost there installing contractors add on. And how ugly it looked like. So I stopped and lost my $250. Next Sunrun only because Costco recommended. Then I started looking into reviews and asking my neighbors. Wow! Stopped that process with Sunrun. So I ended up with SunPower. Better reviews and they don’t use cobalt batteries. That is a whole issue by its own. Remember when you install a solar system you have to have a relationship with them for a long time. I liked how each solar panel has its own inverter. So when a solar panel stops working you don’t loose half of your operation. Also if you need to add solar panels later no big deal just add them. As you can see there are a ton of things to think about when you invest in a solar system. I have 24
panels and two batteries. Everyone has their own requirements . So you need to talk to your solar provider to size it correctly. Remember push for extra power . Well the bottom line. What it cost me. $63,000 for the solar system with batteries. The Feds gave me back $21,000 on my tax return. My cost $42,000. I do not recommend leasing. You need to buy it . It’s the only way to works out to your favor. I am retired so being home all day works in my favor of charging the car. So how it works . Your house uses the stored energy in the batteries and they recharge in the morning. I will start charging my EV once this has happened. 10 am. At 3 pm I stop the charging. So the batteries have time recharge. So I never go onto the grid for power. Now the last bottom line. My electric bill from Edison is $11 per month. I have my own power plant and I love it! My wife is looking into an EV for herself. The last thing is if you install solar you need to take the time and be the middle man when your project is being done. Get to know the city rules and inspectors. Also the fire department rules and inspectors. I found that the city or fire department and the solar company don’t like talking to each other. So it’s best you become the middle man . Your project will go smoothly. Mine project lasted a year before I became fully operational.
Hope this helps!

 

[dtbaker61]

Also be aware, if you sell your house, solar is not usually a good selling point. After qualifying for home loan, buyer also must qualify for remaining solar loan or lease. Bank may not qualify buyer with this additional loan. Even if paid for, seldom or ever do you get any additional in selling price of house. Just another thing to be aware of.

This is one of the reasons why Leased Solar is a terrible idea.

I you buy outright, or get a Solar-only loan directly from your local credit union, you own the system, and pay off the loan from proceeds of your home sale.

 

[woody]

To be clear on this, solar leases are an issue whether you sell the house or not, and can be burden when selling to someone else. Avoid leases.

If you take out a loan for the solar panels that is NOT a burden on the selling process, and realtors overwhelmingly say that selling a home with solar panels (not on lease) is easier and a home with panels is more likely to sell for a premium asking price than one without.

Not a guarantee of higher resale value, but a better chance of some increase and a better chance of your home selling ahead of another in the area without them, especially if you can prove out savings from the panels by historical electric bills.

You wouldn't expect the buyer to assume a loan on panels any more than you would a loan you took out to install a pool or fence, so that part is not relevant. But just like a vehicle lease, trying to get someone to assume that is a headache. Avoid leases.

Never, never lease anything that is on your property.
Never, ever lease a solar array.
Never use a solar "installer" who pushes leasing.
Only use a legitimately certified solar expert as an installer or hire one to advise and then inspect your proposal and install.
Most solar installers are basically clueless in most of the country.
Key question: ask the "installer" if he can install a AC coupled, bi-modal system(this is a system which supplies AC electricity to your home first, then to your battery (usually as a back-up/critical load panel ) storage, and then to the grid.
The battery back-up is convenience. The batteries are currently very expensive, but as a back-up worth it. Most all electric homes would require 80kWh+ of batteries where there is winter.

 

[Jiji]

Also be aware, if you sell your house, solar is not usually a good selling point. After qualifying for home loan, buyer also must qualify for remaining solar loan or lease. Bank may not qualify buyer with this additional loan. Even if paid for, seldom or ever do you get any additional in selling price of house. Just another thing to be aware of.

Not sure if I care as my panels have paid for themselves and I still have 18 years left on the warranty. I am in all electric house with a geothermal heat pump and charge 3 EVs, put my 72 panels in a meadow so not to encumber the roof.

Paying about $18/mo for electric billing and operate close to break even depending on the weather. Luckily my meter runs backward when I overproduce and my summer credits mostly cover the winter solar production deficit.

I have no loan so if I sold the house the panels are included and the new owner can avoid about $4000/year in utility and gasoline (if they drive EVs).

 

[DYohn]

I've had 14.5 Kw of PV panels on my roof since 2015. Yes, I bought them and had them installed using a local independent contractor, I charge the MME at home 90% of the time, my house is all electric, and the A/C runs most of the time here in the desert. Here is my current statement from my electric utility:

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