State Charging Infrastructure Plans

Blue highway

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Problems still exist in rural areas- UP of Michigan as an example- where small rual electrical companies are demanding 1000 a month per site for such sudden high demad capacity and this is for dated 62.5 kW chargers not the 150 kW rated ones specified. The elwctric al grid needs more capacity and updated for this to become a reality.
US 2 looks like it's out of reach for my MME for a while. I was disappointed to see this.

I wonder if storage devices at rural chargers might end up being the solution. This is where the charger stores up power in a battery to enable high power charging. I understood that at least some of the 350KW stations already work this way.
 
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ChasingCoral

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Nice, another government funded program, should be very efficient and effective.
Electrify America is a smashing success with it's Dirselgate mandated stations! Top of the line!
Since you think it was such a bad idea, feel free to boycott all Electrify America stations to make your point.
 

Blue highway

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an observation after reading through a few states... Oregon, Michigan, Georgia, California. It looks like the states were instructed to, or chose to include level 2 chargers. I had hoped and assumed that the focus was solely DCFC.

It strikes me like that including level 2 charging in this discussion, is analogous to including G3 cellular in a mobile data plan.
 


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an observation after reading through a few states... Oregon, Michigan, Georgia, California. It looks like the states were instructed to, or chose to include level 2 chargers. I had hoped and assumed that the focus was solely DCFC.

It strikes me like that including level 2 charging in this discussion, is analogous to including G3 cellular in a mobile data plan.
L2 charging is a necessity given the number of people who live in rental property without the ability to install their own evse. Itā€™s also useful in business districts. They help take tte pressure off DCFC and are far cheaper to install.
 
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ChasingCoral

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an observation after reading through a few states... Oregon, Michigan, Georgia, California. It looks like the states were instructed to, or chose to include level 2 chargers. I had hoped and assumed that the focus was solely DCFC.

It strikes me like that including level 2 charging in this discussion, is analogous to including G3 cellular in a mobile data plan.
Yes, there is allowance for L2 chargers in the policy:
"The inclusion of a requirement that each DCFC charging port must be at or above 150kW would benefit the charging industry primarily in communicating standards with individual utilities that may not be accustomed to EV industry preferences. Section 680.106(d) would include several such components describing power level requirements for coordination between charging station owners/operators and utility providers. This regulation would also outline minimum requirements for the participation of DCFC and AC Level 2 chargers in smart charge management programs to ensure a consistent charging experience and prioritize charging speed. This section would also outline power level requirements for any AC Level 2 ports, including a proposed requirement that all AC Level 2 chargers have the capability to deliver at least a maximum power level of 6 kW per port simultaneously across all AC ports (these charger types would only be allowed after the minimum requirement in Ā§ā€‰680.106(b) is met). The FHWA requests comment on how longer-dwell parking locations and locations that offer battery swapping technology should be addressed."
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...ectric-vehicle-infrastructure-formula-program
 

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Nice, another government funded program, should be very efficient and effective.
Electrify America is a smashing success with it's Dirselgate mandated stations! Top of the line!
I agree that the charging infrastructure won't get better until it can be profitable/taken out of the hands of the central planners. Tesla has a model where they have skin in the game. I don't care for Tesla but it's no surprise why they have the best network.

Look at the GM/EV-GO announcement. I can't remember if it was stated here or elsewhere, but GM had no interest in installing chargers until the gov't said they would pay them money to. How much confidence does that give anyone that they will maintain the charging network?

I participated in the panels for my state's ZEIP program and it was a $h*tshow. Based on their plan, it looks like at least half the chargers are going to be installed in the ghetto or the sticks, with more emphasis on placing the chargers "equitably" than there was to making sure there were chargers adequately spaced on the highways/interstates.
 

Blue highway

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Yes, there is allowance for L2 chargers in the policy:
"The inclusion of a requirement that each DCFC charging port must be at or above 150kW would benefit the charging industry primarily in communicating standards with individual utilities that may not be accustomed to EV industry preferences. Section 680.106(d) would include several such components describing power level requirements for coordination between charging station owners/operators and utility providers. This regulation would also outline minimum requirements for the participation of DCFC and AC Level 2 chargers in smart charge management programs to ensure a consistent charging experience and prioritize charging speed. This section would also outline power level requirements for any AC Level 2 ports, including a proposed requirement that all AC Level 2 chargers have the capability to deliver at least a maximum power level of 6 kW per port simultaneously across all AC ports (these charger types would only be allowed after the minimum requirement in Ā§ā€‰680.106(b) is met). The FHWA requests comment on how longer-dwell parking locations and locations that offer battery swapping technology should be addressed."
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...ectric-vehicle-infrastructure-formula-program
Thanks for the source doc reference.

A year into EV ownership I am of the opinion that Level 2 is only relevant for home and "destination" charging. I only need destination charging if DCFC can't get me home. It's no more than a lifeboat for cross country driving and as such is a distraction in the infrastructure plans of the states.

As a few of the state plans point out, current growth of EVs will outstrip DCFC infrastructure capacity even as their state plans are put into effect.

The more DCFC, the better. "Build it and they will come"
 

Blue highway

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L2 charging is a necessity given the number of people who live in rental property without the ability to install their own evse. Itā€™s also useful in business districts. They help take tte pressure off DCFC and are far cheaper to install.
You might be right, but I'm not convinced on the need for government funded L2 chargers. At least not until DCFC is ubiquitous.

Within the metro area I live in, I never need to use an L2 at a business. I rarely see these used by anyone... I see more cars parked in them, not charging than those that are charging. But if a business sees the need, then by all means the private sector can put them in.

As for apartments, HI might be different, but broadly, apartment dwellers will be among the last to adopt EVs because EVs are expensive, not because they can't charge them in their apartments.
  • The median household wealth among renters is $6,270 or 5.1% of the median wealth among all households.
  • The median household wealth among homeowners is $254,900 or 109% higher than the median household income among all households.
  • Excluding home equity, the median wealth among homeowners is $98,500.
  • At the minute, 17% of renters are behind on their rent.
There are always edge cases, but if we are going to pour government money on this, I'd hope we would enable reliable city to city driving which in vast parts of the country is impossible with an EV.
 

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Where is Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Idaho, Oklahomaā€¦ you knowā€¦ all those places long haulers are depending on!? Not to mention all the Northern routesā€¦Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas.
I was curious about Kansas too. They don't appear to have anything published or in draft form yet - this appear to be where this info will eventually be shared:

https://www.ksdotike.org/charge-up-kansas

Their Facebook and Twitter are pretty barren though.
 
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ChasingCoral

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As for apartments, HI might be different, but broadly, apartment dwellers will be among the last to adopt EVs because EVs are expensive, not because they can't charge them in their apartments.
šŸ“ and šŸ„š
Apartment dwellers donā€™t buy BEVs because they canā€™t charge at home. No chargers for apartment dwellers because they donā€™t buy BEVs.

Itā€™s a climate justice issue. We need to bring BEVs into reach of folks who currently canā€™t make them work to encourage adoption. Thatā€™s also why the new climate bill has money for buying used BEVs.
 

Blue highway

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šŸ“ and šŸ„š
Apartment dwellers donā€™t buy BEVs because they canā€™t charge at home. No chargers for apartment dwellers because they donā€™t buy BEVs.

Itā€™s a climate justice issue. We need to bring BEVs into reach of folks who currently canā€™t make them work to encourage adoption. Thatā€™s also why the new climate bill has money for buying used BEVs.
I'm in line with the goals. I think evidence suggests that investing in DCFC will accelerate adoption and focusing on apartment dwellers will not.
 
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ChasingCoral

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I'm in line with the goals. I think evidence suggests that investing in DCFC will accelerate adoption and focusing on apartment dwellers will not.
Are you involved with your local electric vehicle association? Based on discussions at EVA-DC meetings, there are a lot of EV owners trying to get their condos and apartments to install L2 charging. One local condo association just installed a bank of L2s. There are also issues with homeowners in tight urban/suburban areas with no off-street parking. Our county is installing L2s at libraries and county parks (especially local neighborhood parks) to help fill L2 charging needs close to homes where folks don't have access.
 

Blue highway

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Are you involved with your local electric vehicle association? Based on discussions at EVA-DC meetings, there are a lot of EV owners trying to get their condos and apartments to install L2 charging. One local condo association just installed a bank of L2s. There are also issues with homeowners in tight urban/suburban areas with no off-street parking. Our county is installing L2s at libraries and county parks (especially local neighborhood parks) to help fill L2 charging needs close to homes where folks don't have access.
I respect your opinions but here is something to think about.

Range and cost are the objections. L2s at parks donā€™t address these.

The L2s at libraries and shopping districts in my county have nearly zero usage. And per capita there are a lot more EVs here than in Maryland. I understand that putting these in makes people feel like they are doing something, but they donā€™t answer the practical objections of people that havenā€™t bought an ev.

Here is an anecdoteā€¦ my company offers free L2 and L1 charging (20 spaces). Yet the only use they get is from a plug in hybrid, a leaf and an electric focus. The sea of teslas, bolts, MMEs etc just park elsewhereā€¦ even though the L1 and L2 spaces are closer to the door and free.

in a world of EVs that got 80 miles of range library chargers might have made more sense but in a world of 200+ mile range they donā€™t anymore.

The advantage that Tesla has over everyone is their DCFC networkā€¦ not the destination chargers.

The more chargers the better, but Having the government invest in DCFC makes sense to me because it answers the biggest objections people have. The world where public L2 chargers answered objections has passed. Unless you drive an old leaf.
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