Supercharger Update

[AllenXS]

So what is EA then?

Electric automobile?

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[AllenXS]

Could be, but probably not for anyone to use (other than employees testing) since Ford is supposed to be the first in line to get the adapters.

But yes, I would expect Tesla to "flip the switch" before we get the adapters. As someone previously noted, we know a bunch of people will rush out in the first 90 seconds after getting their adapter to try it. Having it fail because Tesla hadn't activated the chargers for it first would look bad.

If it’s already on beta test which we know nothing about, then I would assume it’s on, unless they have to push a special X in their vehicle.

 

[AllenXS]

Wow, I thought you needed a longer snorkel. ??

Mach-e outrigger?

 

[dbsb3233]

If it’s already on beta test which we know nothing about, then I would assume it’s on, unless they have to push a special X in their vehicle.

I don't know if these were actually working for the Mach-E, or whether they're just faking it, but Tesla was reportedly filming a promo this week. Even if it was actually working with the adapter, no idea if it's just this one station, or it's been rolled out to all of them already. It's logical that Tesla making whatever changes are needed on their end would be the first step. Followed by (or concurrent with) Ford's changes to FordPass, and then to our cars (Powerup). I would think they'd want that all in place before we get the last piece (adapters in hand).

At least that would be my guess. I'm also guessing we'll start seeing reports of testing soon at SC stations, with sightings of select Mach-Es and Lightnings (employees, maybe some invited influencers/testers).

 

[Jiji]

Tying up a DCFC to charge that deep into the curve, at essentially L2 speed, is either ignorance or being an a-hole. Sorry you think that is harsh.

Hopefully they are just ignorant, we all can’t be experts and in the end it is just an inexpensive car with less range than you have (Bolts and Leafs were under $20K after the $7.5K tax credit) and they just want to get home or earn a living.

Or perhaps it was me when I had a Nissan Leaf, just 150 mile EPA range when new, didn't have much choice in the winter but to fill it up to get home. Or someone’s significant other with range anxiety that constantly hears their EV-maven partner grousing about DCFC charger location or reliability. But more likely they got free charging and their rational motives are straight out of an Econ 101 textbook.

But just maybe they are a-holes, as some will be, exploiting a public resource ala the tragedy of the commons. Do you really want them living rent-free in your head cause if so they have won.

 

[dbsb3233]

Hopefully they are just ignorant, we all can’t be experts and in the end it is just an inexpensive car with less range than you have (Bolts and Leafs were under $20K after the $7.5K tax credit) and they just want to get home or earn a living.

Or perhaps it was me when I had a Nissan Leaf, just 150 mile EPA range when new, didn't have much choice in the winter but to fill it up to get home. Or someone’s significant other with range anxiety that constantly hears their partner grousing about DCFC charger location or reliability. But more likely they got free charging and their rational motives are straight out of an Econ 101 textbook.

But just maybe they are a-holes, as some will be, exploiting a public resource ala the tragedy of the commons. Do you really want them living rent-free in your head cause if so they have won.

Yep. Lots of possibilities that run the gamut from perfectly reasonable to being jerks. This is the paradigm we're being cajoled into with EVs and DCFC. We better get used to it because it's likely to get worse. A LOT worse. Playing musical chairs to fight for a charger at peak times will become the frustrating norm. Pitting road trippers vs rideshare drivers vs freebie recipients. Bottlenecks will be common. That's just the nature of long transaction times. It's really not like gas (well, except for the necessity of it). It's more like a car wash, although even that's usually only 10 minutes instead of 30. And car washes are optional. We can live with a dirty car for another day, but we can't live with 6% SOC 70 miles from the nearest DCFC.

If it's our lunch stop charge on a road trip, we plug in and go eat somewhere nearly. We never leave the car long enough to go past 100%, but there are times it may go to 85%, 90%, even 95% by the time we get back. The station may be empty when we arrive but have 2 cars waiting when we get back. Does that make us jerks? I'd say no but the guy that arrives when the station is full and sees my car stting there still charging at 91% probably things so. Oh well, that's the world that's being pushed on us.

The one "good" part is that it hopefully teaches people that getting an EV may be too frustrating if they can't AC charge it most of the time. Without home charging, I wouldn't buy one. I just hope our road trips don't get too frustrating to do in the EV in the coming years. Right now it's still fun and doable. Not sure that will be the case in 2030 with 20x as many on the roads.

 

[Jiji]

The one "good" part is that it hopefully teaches people that getting an EV may be too frustrating if they can't AC charge it most of the time. Without home charging, I wouldn't buy one. I just hope our road trips don't get too frustrating to do in the EV in the coming years. Right now it's still fun and doable. Not sure that will be the case in 2030 with 20x as many on the roads.

When asked by someone if they should get an EV I ask if they are a Type A or Type B personality. In my opinion you need be able to chill when it comes to road trips and public charging, the dictionary definition of Type A seems like you won’t be happy with the time and patience that is sometimes required.

I assume the situation will get better but it won’t happen overnight as public charging infrastructure needs to catch up.

 

[Mirak]

But just maybe they are a-holes, as some will be, exploiting a public resource ala the tragedy of the commons. Do you really want them living rent-free in your head cause if so they have won.

LOL that’s fair. I was extra grouchy because I thought I had left myself plenty of time to charge up between my arrival in KC and start of my son’s soccer game. Instead I missed the first 15mins because I had to wait in line for half an hour glowering at those cheap-ass, unoccupied Bolts charging at 11kW.

I can’t wait for the future to arrive when none of this crap matters anymore. But for the time being, I’ve learned that there are a lot of extremely weird/dumb/cheap EV owners, and I’ve got to share this ridiculously inadequate DCFC network with them.

When Tesla fully opens their Supercharger network to these clowns, Tesla owners are going to be effing pissed. They have no idea what’s about to happen. The videos are gonna be glorious.

 

[Jiji]

If it's our lunch stop charge on a road trip, we plug in and go eat somewhere nearly. We never leave the car long enough to go past 100%, but there are times it may go to 85%, 90%, even 95% by the time we get back. The station may be empty when we arrive but have 2 cars waiting when we get back. Does that make us jerks? I'd say no but the guy that arrives when the station is full and sees my car stting there still charging at 91% probably things so. Oh well, that's the world that's being pushed on us.

I am fine with this, if there is any action to take the station operator can add a surcharge when demand spikes, Tesla already does this and you can be notified via an app, FordPass, EA, whoever.

And a thought experiment that can affect all Mach-E owners. You pull into an EA with two 150kW and two 350kW chargers and all are in use but one of the 350kW chargers.

I have no qualms about plugging in but in the eyes of the Ionic 5 driver that pulls in and notices I am pulling just 100kW I am an inconsiderate jerk and an a-hole. Too bad, deal with it and wait your turn.

 

[Jiji]

LOL that’s fair. I was extra grouchy because I thought I had left myself plenty of time to charge up between my arrival in KC and start of my son’s soccer game. Instead I missed the first 15mins because I had to wait in line for half an hour glowering at those cheap-ass, unoccupied Bolts charging at 11kW.

I have had to wait but I think the solution are congestion fees to turnover chargers efficiently as Tesla already does. The one time that comes to mind was a nice guy that was given a EV rental (picked the ‘cheapest’ option), knows nothing but that he was heading to rural VT and was worried stiff. Hard not to feel sorry for the guy.

Tesla is far ahead of EA and others and sees the standard, I have used the MagicDock a few times and look forward to plug and play but just be aware there will be a lot of unhappy Tesla owners with non-Teslas screwing up ‘their’ SCs.

 

[21st Century Pony]

Tying up a DCFC to charge that deep into the curve, at essentially L2 speed, is either ignorance or being an a-hole. Sorry you think that is harsh.

Ummm, I would not agree with this characterization. The cars are charging (vice "fully charged and just parked") and they were there first.

Unless we know those drivers' situations, we are jumping to emotion-driven conclusions which are a bit ahead of the observable facts.

 

[AhardFSU]

Ummm, I would not agree with this characterization. The cars are charging (vice "fully charged and just parked") and they were there first.

Unless we know those drivers' situations, we are jumping to emotion-driven conclusions which are a bit ahead of the observable facts.

Ok. But my issue is a lot of these Bolts are Uber and Lyft drivers. They don’t need to charge to 100% to do local pickups and drop offs. I think their mentality comes from a lack of knowledge. But I’d hope that they would do better as time goes on but it doesn’t seem that way. That one Uber driver that I see repeatedly on my semi monthly trips is always charging to 100%. Like my guy, have you not figured out that you don’t need to do that? Like you’re wasting your time and losing money by doing that. Sheesh!

 

[Mirak]

Dirty little secret is Uber/Lyft drivers are becoming a major strain on DCFC, especially in major cities. People were even renting EVs to use for Uber, and Hertz actually endorsed this practice.

During the Chicago debacle a few months ago, people noticed all the chargers clogged by cars bearing both rideshare and rental insignia.

That is not what DCFC was intended for. These people are charger lice.

 

[DCC233]

It would be easy to blame rideshare drivers for "clogging" up DCFCs, but DCFC were built for the sole purpose to charge one's EV as fast as possible agnostic of the occupation/purpose of the EV utilizing the infrastructure. What their occupation is has nothing to do with whether they deserve to use that "limited" infrastructure or not.

Kind of like, don't hate the player hate the game, cliche. It's the lack of infrastructure for the most part (and partial blame to the manufacturers for not implementing faster charging hardware...IMO anything under 150 peak charge rate should be criminal at this point). Outside of Tesla, for the most part, the DCFC is currently not up to par to support the current demand in many geographic areas in the US, and the rate of deployment is not keeping pace. That's the problem, IMO, not rideshare users or Bolt/Leaf users.

The only time I feel as if it is appropriate to get annoyed in terms of charging is if they are their beyond 100% and are idling. It would be like waiting in line at a gas station and being annoyed that the car at the pump didn't stop at 80% full. Granted it isn't an apples to apples example, as the fuel pump doesn't exponentially slow down pumping at 80% but they aren't breaking any rules/laws. What their reasons are for filling to 75%, 85%, or 100% aren't really my business.

If a car fills its tank and then doesn't move to allow others to use the infrastructure then yes they are technically an economic impediment ergo the business should charge them for impacting sales ala idle fees at stations.

 

[Jiji]

Outside of Tesla, for the most part, the DCFC is currently not up to par to support the current demand in many geographic areas in the US, and the rate of deployment is not keeping pace. That's the problem, IMO, not rideshare users or Bolt/Leaf users.

So true. Using EA as an example, it might appear they have a large number of under-utilized locations where it isn’t worth the cost of maintaining a high uptime. Only they know the utilization and if they aren’t turning a profit they have no incentive to add more chargers or sites once the Dieselgate penalties are in the rear mirror or in the absence of federal/state subsidies.

Just maybe some degree of over subscription is needed to jump start the process and EV owners without L2 charging equipment serve this purpose. But EA and others could simply follow Tesla’s lead and implement surge pricing, they already switched to TOU rates and idle fees, surge pricing is another tool to motivate turnover when demand is high and maximize their profit.

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