Tesla Slashes Prices

[Ghost Ryder]

Because it’s dishonest.

It’s not a fair comparison and Tesla knows it.

Would it be fair to compare Tesla autopilot miles per crash to miles per crash at a NASCAR track? Of course not. While it could be accurate, it’s purposefully misleading.

“It’s up to the reader to interpret?” Sounds like a scammer saying “buyer beware……”

And guess what? There IS that data. NHTSA knows exactly how many crashes happened on the highway. But Tesla chose to use the data that makes themselves look better instead. That’s what the NYT article was about.

Where's the data? Did NHTSA release it? If there is, it would be easy to compare. Assuming that AP is exclusively used on the Hwy. We know how many accidents per mile of travel using AP. Now compare that to how many accidents per mile of Travel on the HWY travel per the NHTSA.

The problem is I don't see that data from the NHTSA. If you find it, then post it. Easy comparison. I assume the the NYT would of post that info if they had it, or maybe they do have it, but it still showed that AP was safer and therefore did not post it because it didn't fit in there story.

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[Mach1E]

Where's the data? Did NHTSA release it? If there is, it would be easy to compare. Assuming that AP is exclusively used on the Hwy. We know how many accidents per mile of travel using AP. Now compare that to how many accidents per mile of Travel on the HWY travel per the NHTSA.

The problem is I don't see that data from the NHTSA. If you find it, then post it. Easy comparison. I assume the the NYT would of post that info if they had it, or maybe they do have it, but it still showed that AP was safer and therefore did not post it because it didn't fit in there story.

Tesla has all their data. NYT knew exactly how much safer highway driving is (based on NHTSA data).

The issue? Tesla chose not to compare the data that doesn’t make them look as good. End result? As the NYT stated, we don’t know how much safer it is.

The missing data is from Tesla, not from the NHTSA.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Tesla has all their data. NYT knew exactly how much safer highway driving is (based on NHTSA data).

The issue? Tesla chose not to compare the data that doesn’t make them look as good. End result? As the NYT stated, we don’t know how much safer it is.

The missing data is from Tesla, not from the NHTSA.

Why is the missing data from Tesla? What data is tesla not releasing? They released how many accidents per miles Tesla with AP activated and without AP active have. So the only info missing is from the NHTSA. You're telling me that only Tesla can get the data from the NHTSA? No one else can? NYT can't? No freedom of info act?

Tesla release their data from their cars. How many accidents per miles of AP use. Now just compare it to the data from the NHTSA if its available. EZ PZ. unless there is no data from the NHTSA.

There is so much Tesla hate out there that if there was data from the NHTSA that says that there were less accidents per mile driven on the HWY for non Tesla, then every newspaper, website, youtube creators would be publishing it in bold headlines.

 

[Billyk24]

You guys are fixated on the name, and not what it can do. I agree that FSD is not a great name for the current capabilities. But I would hope that someone ready to plunk down 15k would actually read the description and do the minimum research into its capabilities.

As far as being a cash cow, Tesla is allowed to make money and reinvest it as it sees fit. Nothing wrong will being profitable.

Coming soon since 2018? Same vehicle has had two different owners purchase fsd on it? Is that legal or a illegal cash cow? If one purchases fsd on the statement "coming soon" or if you wait you will pay more, and fsd has not arrived three years later. Then do the owner who paid for the fsd price but never received it,get a full refund? Does coming soon mean your chipping in for research that might not arrive for your vehicle?

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Coming soon since 2018? Same vehicle has had two different owners purchase fsd on it? Is that legal or a illegal cash cow? If one purchases fsd on the statement "coming soon" or if you wait you will pay more, and fsd has not arrived three years later. Then do the owner who paid for the fsd price but never received it,get a full refund? Does coming soon mean your chipping in for research that might not arrive for your vehicle?

Define soon. I don't buy software on a promise. On the website it clearly says what you're getting at the time of purchase. So legal. If it was illegal, I would expect multiple class action lawsuits. Haven't seen any commercials from lawyers yet.

this is cut and paste from Tesla Website when ordering FSD:

Full Self-Driving Capability
$15,000

1. All functionality of Basic Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot
2. Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control

Coming Soon

1. Autosteer on city streets

The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.

-----

That's all they promised you get for 15k. People assume that tesla promised more, but it didn't. Tesla clearly spells out what you get and that it will improve over time. Tesla so far has abided by that. Improving and updating over time. You may not like that Tesla gave an option to buy now at a lower price with the hope of improvements in the future, but that's the risk people are willing to take.

I wouldn't pay 15k on a promise of future features, but each to their own. I don't know why anyone would pay 15k for FSD when they could pay $200 a month subscription. It would take 6 years of subscription to equal 15k. Seems foolish.

 

[SWO]

You're understanding is incorrect based on my quote. And notice in my quote I also included non Tesla automated systems. We always agreed on FSD, that in it's current form, it's not safer than the avg driver. But I believe that it is improving with each OTA update, and it may be on par one day. It has shown significant improvement with every update.

Regardless, the driver will always have to pay attention and be ready to intervene. Just like BC and AP or Supercruise now.

WADR, FSD hasn't shown significant improvement in years. There are still major problems with FSD and autopilot (like phantom braking...directly relating to using vision systems) which they haven't been able to crack.

BlueCruise, IMO, is quite good on roads where it is mapped. I've had no dangerous interactions with it in probably 6k miles of usage. Only errors were maybe 4 times it misread speed signs.

Tesla convinced people to buy cars and FSD service saying, in short order, they would drive your kids to school or you could make money having them shuttle people around for fares (if Tesla actually believed that, why would they sell the cars instead of building a taxi fleet?).

Most of the people who bought those cars have since sold them or sent them to the crusher. I'm amazed there hasn't been a class action lawsuit yet.

 

[SWO]

Define soon. I don't buy software on a promise. On the website it clearly says what you're getting at the time of purchase. So legal. If it was illegal, I would expect multiple class action lawsuits. Haven't seen any commercials from lawyers yet.

this is cut and paste from Tesla Website when ordering FSD:

Full Self-Driving Capability
$15,000

1. All functionality of Basic Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot
2. Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control

Coming Soon

1. Autosteer on city streets

The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.

-----

That's all they promised you get for 15k. People assume that tesla promised more, but it didn't. Tesla clearly spells out what you get and that it will improve over time. Tesla so far has abided by that. Improving and updating over time. You may not like that Tesla gave an option to buy now at a lower price with the hope of improvements in the future, but that's the risk people are willing to take.

I wouldn't pay 15k on a promise of future features, but each to their own. I don't know why anyone would pay 15k for FSD when they could pay $200 a month subscription. It would take 6 years of subscription to equal 15k. Seems foolish.

...but then they call it "Full Self Driving."

How many years has it been since they showed the fake video of the car driving itself?

 

[Mach1E]

Why is the missing data from Tesla? What data is tesla not releasing? They released how many accidents per miles Tesla with AP activated and without AP active have. So the only info missing is from the NHTSA. You're telling me that only Tesla can get the data from the NHTSA? No one else can? NYT can't? No freedom of info act?

Tesla release their data from their cars. How many accidents per miles of AP use. Now just compare it to the data from the NHTSA if its available. EZ PZ. unless there is no data from the NHTSA.

There is so much Tesla hate out there that if there was data from the NHTSA that says that there were less accidents per mile driven on the HWY for non Tesla, then every newspaper, website, youtube creators would be publishing it in bold headlines.

Did you read the NYT article? They spelled it out pretty clearly.

Tesla knows that autopilot is mostly used on highways where we travel many more miles per accident.

They could have compared their data to highway data.

They chose not to.

NHTSA data is public. Tesla data is not.

Why can’t every news outlet report the REAL data? Because Tesla won’t release it.

You talk about the “Tesla hate,” but the “Tesla apologists” are just as bad.

They are dishonest about their data and you say “it’s up to the reader” to determine.

They overcharge for FSD, you say “what’s wrong with making a profit?”

FWIW, I don’t hate Tesla. Driving my neighbors Tesla is what got me interested in BEVs. And I’m currently helping my brother possibly order a Model YP.

But when a company is dishonest. I’m gonna call them out. I do the same when Ford is dishonest, and I love my car.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Did you read the NYT article? They spelled it out pretty clearly.

Tesla knows that autopilot is mostly used on highways where we travel many more miles per accident.

They could have compared their data to highway data.

They chose not to.

NHTSA data is public. Tesla data is not.

Why can’t every news outlet report the REAL data? Because Tesla won’t release it.

You talk about the “Tesla hate,” but the “Tesla apologists” are just as bad.

They are dishonest about their data and you say “it’s up to the reader” to determine.

They overcharge for FSD, you say “what’s wrong with making a profit?”

FWIW, I don’t hate Tesla. Driving my neighbors Tesla is what got me interested in BEVs. And I’m currently helping my brother possibly order a Model YP.

But when a company is dishonest. I’m gonna call them out. I do the same when Ford is dishonest, and I love my car.

What is overcharge? Is $1 overcharge? $100, $1000. FSD started out at 5000 when it first came out, price was raised gradually since then. FSD is a luxury not a necessity like food and some people are willing to pay for it, so why is it an overcharge?

As far as data, Tesla did release their data. They release how many accidents per miles of AP travel. I'm not sure what other data you want tesla to release.

How are they dishonest. Data seems pretty easy to Interpret.
https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

You keep saying NHTSA data is public, but cant point to where it list accidents per mile of HWY travel. Give me that info and we can compare it to TESLA's.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

...but then they call it "Full Self Driving."

How many years has it been since they showed the fake video of the car driving itself?

They can call it whatever they want. Ford also call their yellow color Cyber orange. It's clearly school bus yellow. If I'm spending 15k on an option, I would read the description that is right underneath the name.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

WADR, FSD hasn't shown significant improvement in years. There are still major problems with FSD and autopilot (like phantom braking...directly relating to using vision systems) which they haven't been able to crack.

BlueCruise, IMO, is quite good on roads where it is mapped. I've had no dangerous interactions with it in probably 6k miles of usage. Only errors were maybe 4 times it misread speed signs.

Tesla convinced people to buy cars and FSD service saying, in short order, they would drive your kids to school or you could make money having them shuttle people around for fares (if Tesla actually believed that, why would they sell the cars instead of building a taxi fleet?).

Most of the people who bought those cars have since sold them or sent them to the crusher. I'm amazed there hasn't been a class action lawsuit yet.

There isn't a class action lawsuit because Tesla never promised anything that they have not delivered. There's stuff that they striving for, but have not reach.

As far as no improvement in years, I would disagree. Just pull up videos (and I would recommend videos when they show the whole drive unedited. It'll give you a better feeling of what the car can and can't do vs the click bait shorts.) when FSD first came out to compared to the most recent version and you'll see tons of improvement. Still not enough to let it drive unsupervised, and still needs work, but much improved.

I can't speak for other people, but I've had 2 separate MY and I've experienced Phantom braking once. In my case, I think it was related to shadows as I was decending to a dip in the road. But who knows. Compare to BC in my MME, they are equivalent. I like the UI in the MY better because I can see what cars are around me, but otherwise there's really no difference between AP and BC. I'm happy with both.

 

[KevinS]

(looks at subject title)

So, uh, yeah, Tesla cut its prices again.

 

[Mach1E]

What is overcharge? Is $1 overcharge? $100, $1000. FSD started out at 5000 when it first came out, price was raised gradually since then. FSD is a luxury not a necessity like food and some people are willing to pay for it, so why is it an overcharge?

As far as data, Tesla did release their data. They release how many accidents per miles of AP travel. I'm not sure what other data you want tesla to release.

How are they dishonest. Data seems pretty easy to Interpret.
https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

You keep saying NHTSA data is public, but cant point to where it list accidents per mile of HWY travel. Give me that info and we can compare it to TESLA's.

$15,000 is “overcharge.”

Full circle from the point I made pages ago- it’s one way Tesla makes up for the low base prices.

I already stated how they’re dishonest. So did the NYT article. Why do you keep wanting to beat that dead horse?

 

[Auto Motive]

Ouch to anyone buying a '23 mach-e here soon..yikes

My wife has a GTPE and adores it. It's my turn to check out the Tesla model y long range with 330 mile range 0-60 in 4.8 seconds with $7500 rebate equals to $51000 plus tax out the door. We have a showroom close by. Heading down in a few weeks. Can not beat the price for range.

 

[Mach1E]

My wife has a GTPE and adores it. It's my turn to check out the Tesla model y long range with 330 mile range 0-60 in 4.8 seconds with $7500 rebate equals to $51000 plus tax out the door. We have a showroom close by. Heading down in a few weeks. Can not beat the price for range.

Price is great.

May want to research the real world range.

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