Tesla Slashes Prices

[Ghost Ryder]

That’s not the point I was making. Not only do I know what FSD is, I’ve driven my neighbors model 3 that had it.

The point was a price comparison. And sure, the “no options” MYP is cheaper. But not anymore when you add FSD.

And I would much rather have my GTPE for $70k than a MYP with FSD for $72k (I don’t qualify for the tax credit anyways).

But the GTPE at 70k vs a MYP w/o FSD for 57k is the more appropriate comparison. Now that's a huge difference in price.

No saying that you would buy a tesla at any price, just trying to keep the comparison as equal as can be.

There's a lot of people that think autopilot and FSD are the same when they are not.

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[MacherAWD]

There's a lot of arguments you can make on why the MME is better than the MY, but you can't seriously equate Blue Cruise with FSD. By they way, autopilot is included in the base price of the car, and it's essentially blue cruise. FSD is what 15k buys you. If you don't know the difference you should check it out. It's always updating, the the most recent update is pretty impressive. Still not there yet in term of full autonomous driving, but impressive none the less.

I suggest watch youtube videos that include the whole drive vs click bait snap shots. You'll get a better more realistic impression of FSD, vs the agenda that people want to push, either for or against tesla.

I drove into Boston yesterday, 2hrs roundtrip during rush hour. I touched my controls for a total of 15min. FSD can't do that.

 

[KevinS]

There's a lot of people that think autopilot and FSD are the same when they are not.

Lot of people where?

 

[phil]

the y has a lot more storage than the 3. I wish there was no price difference but it is a larger car.

That's what I thought. If you prefer the larger size, that's fine. But $4,000 extra does not strike me as any great bargain for the bit of extra steel required to stretch the Model 3 a few inches taller. The $4,000 probably covers a little extra production cost, and a little more profit for Tesla on the Model Y.

 

[Hammered]

That's what I thought. If you prefer the larger size, that's fine. But $4,000 extra does not strike me as any great bargain for the bit of extra steel required to stretch the Model 3 a few inches taller. The $4,000 probably covers a little extra production cost, and a little more profit for Tesla on the Model Y.

Yeah, it's a tax on a popular vehicle style. They charge more for it because they can, more so than it costs to make. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that tesla is analyzing the market continually with a form of machine intelligence factoring in everything from production capacity, price inputs, to what the competition is doing. The goal is to maximize total profit while also not giving the competition breathing room. This is their 4th or 5th price modification in ~ 5 months time. The other's can't pivot that fast with the amount of inventory on dealer lots w/ stickers. Look at how ford handled the price drop initially in its totality -- having to send out refunds and not having things in-place to handle it smoothly. I wouldn't be surprised to hear people are now 3 months into waiting for their price adjustment check.

The industry is chasing a highly agile target in a manner they haven't had to deal with before. I'm enjoying watching the industry suffer from the bloated cozy models they've built themselves.

 

[Mach1E]

Autopilot is free on Tesla you pay $0 to get it.
Enhanced autopilot is $6k
Full self driving is $12k

I haven't used Tesla's but I know bluecruise twice drove me directly to the lane divider, so I don't trust it and won't trust Tesla's too, If I have to keep my hands on the wheel and eyes on the road, I'll just drive like I do.

FSD is $15k:

Despite the name, none are “self driving.” They’re all drivers aids and you should keep your eyes on the road.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I drove into Boston yesterday, 2hrs roundtrip during rush hour. I touched my controls for a total of 15min. FSD can't do that.

Are you really going to argue that blue cruise is more capable than FSD?

tesla autopilot can function just fine without touching the steering wheel. when It first came out it did t even require the occasional tap if the wheel. It only added because regulators required it to insure drivers were paying attention. But it has not effect of the actual capability of the auto driving suite.

as far as capability between the two systems, FSD vs BC I dont think you can find anyone that can Honestly argue that BC is more advance.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

FSD is $15k:

Despite the name, none are “self driving.” They’re all drivers aids and you should keep your eyes on the road.

And regular autopilot is included in the price of the base car.
none is full self driving. no argument there. But FSD is still pretty impressive. Not worth 15k currently but still pretty impress with what its able to do and the constant improvement with each update.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Lot of people where?

pretty much the general public. Even in This forum where the avg user is pretty car savvy, there are times when it’s obvious that they use autopilot and FSD interchangeably.

see post 595 above where Mach1E compared BC at 600$ to autopilot at 15k. he obviously knows the difference between FSD and autopilot but still use the two terms incorrectly. Maybe it was a mistype or maybe it was deliberate misinformation. That’s up to him to clarify.

 

[Mach1E]

pretty much the general public. Even in This forum where the avg user is pretty car savvy, there are times when it’s obvious that they use autopilot and FSD interchangeably.

see post 595 above where Mach1E compared BC at 600$ to autopilot at 15k. he obviously knows the difference between FSD and autopilot but still use the two terms incorrectly. Maybe it was a mistype or maybe it was deliberate misinformation. That’s up to him to clarify.

More of me “not really caring about the terminology Tesla uses and too lazy to look it up.” When I called it $15k autopilot everyone probably knew what I meant.

Autopilot, FSD and Bluecruise are all made up terms. The point was just about one way Tesla makes up for their cheap base prices, by overcharging for options.

 

[Hammered]

$15k for level 2 ADAS -- LOL

The fact that tesla has created a high resolution radar to put back into the cars says a lot, after removing it for 'vision' in the first place. The highway driving portion of the software stack just very recently got an update -- as in the last few months (the over-written version had zip, zilch, zero to do with the FSD stack). Not sure if it's fixed the phantom braking yet. At least they disabled the system entirely on bridges and tunnels. That should end the pileups at least.

 

[KevinS]

Autopilot, FSD and Bluecruise are all made up terms. The point was just about one way Tesla makes up for their cheap base prices, by overcharging for options.

I got the point you were making. Tesla's famously high profit margins are based on leveraging things like add-ons that they know their customers will pay for. FSD scares the hell out of me because I have to share the roads with multi-ton vehicles running "beta" software.

 

[MacherAWD]

Are you really going to argue that blue cruise is more capable than FSD?

tesla autopilot can function just fine without touching the steering wheel. when It first came out it did t even require the occasional tap if the wheel. It only added because regulators required it to insure drivers were paying attention. But it has not effect of the actual capability of the auto driving suite.

as far as capability between the two systems, FSD vs BC I dont think you can find anyone that can Honestly argue that BC is more advance.

Both systems could do the same things, one system hasn't chosen to use it's drivers and the public as a massive experiment. Regulators require drivers maintain control because of the systems limitations. FSD is cool, but safety is part of a self driving system and it needs improvement there.

And again, on a 2hr drive can I touch controls for only 15min with FSD? Personally I have never used cruise control when I have to maintain control, in that case I just drive.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Both systems could do the same things, one system hasn't chosen to use it's drivers and the public as a massive experiment. Regulators require drivers maintain control because of the systems limitations. FSD is cool, but safety is part of a self driving system and it needs improvement there.

And again, on a 2hr drive can I touch controls for only 15min with FSD? Personally I have never used cruise control when I have to maintain control, in that case I just drive.

Actually both systems can't do the same thing. Can BC stop at a red light? Can it operate on city street? Can it make a turn at an intersection? Can it take an freeway exit or entrance? Or change interstate?

As for your second question, yes on your 2 hr drive, FSD requires less than 15 mins of control input. I'm assuming it's mostly divided highway you're on. So in that situation, FSD or autopilot requires to to tug the steering wheel or scroll wheel every 1-2 mins. Tugging the wheel takes all of 1/2 second. So lets say in the worst case scenario, it takes you 1 sec every min. That would take you a total of 120 seconds in your 2 hour drive. Once it gets on city street, its capable of taking turns, and navigating to your destination. How much you have to intervene on city street is variable, but if you look at the most RECENT (latest version of FSD) youtube videos (complete drive and not edited) it's not very often.

I have plain autopilot and BC. On the same freeway that I drive, I find that they are pretty much equivalent. BC disconnect more often, usually in construction zone, or when the lane markings are faded. Plus BC likes to be dead center or a little to the right side of the lane. This can be a problem because big rigs and cars in my area like to ride the left, left/center of the lane.

 

[MacherAWD]

Actually both systems can't do the same thing. Can BC stop at a red light? Can it operate on city street? Can it make a turn at an intersection? Can it take an freeway exit or entrance? Or change interstate?

As for your second question, yes on your 2 hr drive, FSD requires less than 15 mins of control input. I'm assuming it's mostly divided highway you're on. So in that situation, FSD or autopilot requires to to tug the steering wheel or scroll wheel every 1-2 mins. Tugging the wheel takes all of 1/2 second. So lets say in the worst case scenario, it takes you 1 sec every min. That would take you a total of 120 seconds in your 2 hour drive. Once it gets on city street, its capable of taking turns, and navigating to your destination. How much you have to intervene on city street is variable, but if you look at the most RECENT (latest version of FSD) youtube videos (complete drive and not edited) it's not very often.

I have plain autopilot and BC. On the same freeway that I drive, I find that they are pretty much equivalent. BC disconnect more often, usually in construction zone, or when the lane markings are faded. Plus BC likes to be dead center or a little to the right side of the lane. This can be a problem because big rigs and cars in my area like to ride the left, left/center of the lane.

So it still requires much more interaction and constant. As for capabilities I mean that every aspect of both cars can be autonomously controlled, and we have the same cameras and sensors. So technically we could get an equivalent release of FSD next year. That is what I mean when I say both cars have the same capability. It has been unsafely released on one model, on the other it might be much further behind on development, but also not safe for release.

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