Tesla Slashes Prices

[SWO]

What part of the graph confuses you? Seems to be pretty straight forward.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/tesla-slashes-prices.25104/page-71#post-642234

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[Ghost Ryder]

Continual mis-information. As stated its no longer Tesla vs "Everyone Else", my MME has taken over 20 OTAs last year, including a recall. There are modern EVs, Tesla, Ford, GM, Kia, Hyundai, VW, many more that are all on point with Tesla. They all have integrated navigation.

Yes Tesla was the first to start the OTA thing but now it is industry standard.

There's different levels of OTAs. Tesla is still way ahead of the curve. an example would be ford requiring you to come into the dealership to update software on the phone charging pad. There are lots of other examples like that. Ford OTA is not comprehensive. They also fail to update frequently also. There's lots of report of people's MME getting stuck on an outdated version. I never got my HVBJB OTA, so I had to bring my car in and leave it at the dealer for 5 days for them to do it. Ford is trying, but its not even close when it comes to OTA updates. I can't speak for other OEM other than Ford or Tesla as those are the only two that I have first hand experience with.

 

[SWO]

Bjorn uses a loop test, where he drives the same real roads. Some of those are at cold temp b/c they are in the mountains, some are warm temp down near sea level, etc. He includes all temp and weather data in his testing spreadsheet for people to be fully informed.

That article / graph has nothing to do with him as far as I can tell.

 

[MacherAWD]

There's different levels of OTAs. Tesla is still way ahead of the curve. an example would be ford requiring you to come into the dealership to update software on the phone charging pad. There are lots of other examples like that. Ford OTA is not comprehensive. They also fail to update frequently also. There's lots of report of people's MME getting stuck on an outdated version. I never got my HVBJB OTA, so I had to bring my car in and leave it at the dealer for 5 days for them to do it. Ford is trying, but its not even close when it comes to OTA updates. I can't speak for other OEM other than Ford or Tesla as those are the only two that I have first hand experience with.

Agreed, Tesla is experienced at it and there process is a bit better. Ford has been doing it for a little over a year and is not bad IMO. Still both cars can take OTA updates, and it seems all other modern EVs have this capability (but seem further behind).

 

[SWO]

Agreed, Tesla is experienced at it and there process is a bit better. Ford has been doing it for a little over a year and is not bad IMO. Still both cars can take OTA updates, and it seems all other modern EVs have this capability (but seem further behind).

Is it? With the caveat that their sample size is larger - there's multiple examples of customers' vehicles being "bricked" by Tesla OTAs.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/tesla-slashes-prices.25104/page-71#post-642234

I think you have to look at the graph and compare one car to another instead of looking at the raw numbers. There's going to be some variability. He can't replicate the exact same condition for every vehicle.

When viewed like that, it's obvious that the MME is lagging behind its peers in charging efficiency.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Agreed, Tesla is experienced at it and there process is a bit better. Ford has been doing it for a little over a year and is not bad IMO. Still both cars can take OTA updates, and it seems all other modern EVs have this capability (but seem further behind).

My understanding is that Tesla's software and hardware are integrated from the ground up hence they're able to update most if not all of their components via OTA. Where as Ford and other OEMs are using man legacy parts from multiple different suppliers making OTAs much more difficulty.

 

[voxel]

How is it possible to average 75kw over 22-23 minutes in a Mach-E ER vehicle? Hell I think my SR did better than that.

ETA: I just read the article at the link and it says " the average charging rate for the entire time plugged in " - do they mean 0-100%? If so, that's a stupid statistic. I assumed by the graph that they meant average over the period to add 100mi charge.

"We test from a 10 to 90 percent state of charge on the fastest equipment an EV can handle."

This lines up to my experience the Mach-E has a lower kW charge rate in general and then drops to 40 kW after 80%

I'm an owner who doesn't care much for charging speeds but I IMMEDIATELY notice how much faster the Ioniq 5 is. I seem to hit 130+ kW instantly. My 12-15 minute rest/pee breaks add 30+ kWh. My stops are definitely shorter.

In the same time (12-15 minutes), I might only add 20 kWh on the Mach-E.

The BMW i4 I previously had was also a quick charger with a very flat curve. And being a sedan it was efficient too -> 300+ miles of highway range over 75mph was easy to do.

 

[MacherAWD]

My understanding is that Tesla's software and hardware are integrated from the ground up hence they're able to update most if not all of their components via OTA. Where as Ford and other OEMs are using man legacy parts from multiple different suppliers making OTAs much more difficulty.

Sure they are a software company first, so they excel here. But my 21 has taken over 20 updates in it's first year, all without issue, so I still consider Ford doing pretty well here.

 

[SWO]

"We test from a 10 to 90 percent state of charge on the fastest equipment an EV can handle."

This lines up to my experience the Mach-E has a lower kW charge rate in general and then drops to 40 kW after 80%

I'm an owner who doesn't care much for charging speeds but I IMMEDIATELY notice how much faster the Ioniq 5 is. I seem to hit 130+ kW instantly. My 12-15 minute rest/pee breaks add 30+ kWh. My stops are definitely shorter.

In the same time (12-15 minutes), I might only add 20 kWh on the Mach-E.

The BMW i4 I previously had was also a quick charger with a very flat curve. And being a sedan it was efficient too -> 300+ miles of highway range over 75mph was easy to do.

Yeah I just read the article and saw that. So, graph makes sense in that context (wonder if they tested a Mach-E before or after the charge curve buff?) but wish they had done 10-80% vs 90%.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Sure they are a software company first, so they excel here. But my 21 has taken over 20 updates in it's first year, all without issue, so I still consider Ford doing pretty well here.

That's the thing though, there are things that Ford can update OTA, and things that Ford can't. Most of the things that Ford pushed out are cosmetic, UI, etc. There's a lot of software updates available to the MME, but requires you to take it to the dealership, or have a FDRS to update. Whereas Tesla can do all of them OTA.

I think this will improve with the next Generation, but currently, there are limits to what Ford can do OTA.

 

[voxel]

Yeah I just read the article and saw that. So, graph makes sense in that context (wonder if they tested a Mach-E before or after the charge curve buff?) but wish they had done 10-80% vs 90%.

Yeah 80% would be more fair but I suspect the Mach-E would still be where it is in the charts. Charge speed is not a strength... well neither is efficiency but that's why the Mach-E has a 99 kWh battery pack.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

the Korean brands really stand out on that chart. Incredible how fast they can charge for having a "normal" size battery.

 

[EVandSolar]

the Korean brands really stand out on that chart. Incredible how fast they can charge for having a "normal" size battery.

The charging speed is almost misleading for the Korean cars. Wheat *really* matters, is how fast a given car replenishes *range*.

Tesla is so much more efficient than other brands, achieving more range with less battery, that they replenish range faster than any other EV made. So in real world use, charge stops are not only shorter, but cost less. It's a win win and people don't realize how far ahead Tesla is because they look only at charging speed.

Bjorn has an interesting chart that overlays *range* replenishment rather than charging speed, and Tesla has a huge lead over all other EV's.



Edit: I mentioned the Korean cars but don't see them included on Bjorn's chart yet. I know the Ioniq 5 and EV6 are not very efficient so I suspect the same holds true i.e. they don't replenish range as fast despite high charging speeds, but wanted to clarify that the actual data is not in this video. Wonder if he has updated info including those two models?

 

[Socalsp3]

The charging speed is almost misleading for the Korean cars. Wheat *really* matters, is how fast a given car replenishes *range*.

Tesla is so much more efficient than other brands, achieving more range with less battery, that they replenish range faster than any other EV made. So in real world use, charge stops are not only shorter, but cost less. It's a win win and people don't realize how far ahead Tesla is because they look only at charging speed.

Bjorn has an interesting chart that overlays *range* replenishment rather than charging speed, and Tesla has a huge lead over all other EV's.

We all know how tesla overestimates range.

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