Tesla!! when it is going to stop??

[Ghost Ryder]

There are 2 measuring sticks.

One everyone else uses.

One that gets you a 10% better result.

Tesla picks the latter.

End result? Inflated numbers, confused shoppers.

Two possible solutions-
1. EPA only gives one test option
2. Tesla picks the same test as everyone else

I would be happy with either solution.

The real world difference (in every real world test) isn’t because of aerodynamics, it’s because of the “correction factor” that Tesla chooses to use on their test.

Problem is:
1) Not every OEM use the 2 cycle test, some do use the 5 cycle test.
2) Tesla was one of the first EV and is the largest EV builder in the US. They chose the 5 cycle test option before most other OEMs. So now it's up to them to change? This is similar to the NACs charging standard. It's usually up to everyone else to conform to the best selling brand.

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[Mach1E]

Problem is:
1) Not every OEM use the 2 cycle test, some do use the 5 cycle test.
2) Tesla was one of the first EV and is the largest EV builder in the US. They chose the 5 cycle test option before most other OEMs. So now it's up to them to change? This is similar to the NACs charging standard. It's usually up to everyone else to conform to the best selling brand.

1) yup other manufacturers that want inflated unrealistic numbers

2) yes. Because now we know which test is more realistic. Not sure on the history of the two tests, but my bet is Tesla has known since the beginning which test inflates the numbers and keeps choosing that test.

Just because you have been doing the “wrong” thing for a long time doesn’t excuse it.

 

[Trax]

Same. I got 2.6 over 27k miles. The trip computer resets every 10k miles and it‘s been pretty consistent.

where do I get this info from the MME? Thanks in advance

 

[Gloff]

1) yup other manufacturers that want inflated unrealistic numbers

2) yes. Because now we know which test is more realistic. Not sure on the history of the two tests, but my bet is Tesla has known since the beginning which test inflates the numbers and keeps choosing that test.

Just because you have been doing the “wrong” thing for a long time doesn’t excuse it.

Tesla is playing by the rules as they are written. Good on them, lots of parking tickets are dismissed on technicalities, but if those technicalities are written into the rules, it's not wrong. Until the EPA changes the methodology, they haven't done anything wrong.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

where do I get this info from the MME? Thanks in advance

under the trip tab. There's one for "this trip" and then there are two more tabs that you can reset at any time. The mi/kWh is located on the upper right side.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

1) yup other manufacturers that want inflated unrealistic numbers

2) yes. Because now we know which test is more realistic. Not sure on the history of the two tests, but my bet is Tesla has known since the beginning which test inflates the numbers and keeps choosing that test.

Just because you have been doing the “wrong” thing for a long time doesn’t excuse it.

If you're going to use that argument, then all manufacturers are "wrong" because they all get under the EPA range, the question is how much. It's all a matter of degrees.

 

[Jrny127]

Ok. Got it. Stop at the click bait titles. Let the echo chamber think for you.

What are you talking about? What click bait? Please giver reference to your reply please!

 

[hprose]

One thing to keep in mind is that all NMC Lithium batteries react the same to environmental conditions, regardless of the EV brand.

I know the OP is talking about the EPA estimated range, but from all reports that I've seen it's fairly accurate in good climate traveling at 55mph. Obviously when the climate gets colder, speeds increase and conditions change we see those EPA estimated numbers go down the drain.

My GTPE was not even close to the EPA range numbers. Based on many reports in the forum, that might just be a GTPE issue. In perfect conditions on the freeway I would be lucky to get 220 and in the winter lucky to get 170. My Rivian is far more accurate to the EPA than any other EV I've owned.

I have a 22 GT. Estimated range 270. My combination city/highway consistently is range 275-297. I charged to 100% last night. Range 296. I put in my route which was 98% interstate. The GOM immediately changed to 260. I drove a consistent BC 75. The 260 appeared to be dead on accurate when I pulled into an EA charger adding 71 miles in 11 minutes.

 

[Mach1E]

If you're going to use that argument, then all manufacturers are "wrong" because they all get under the EPA range, the question is how much. It's all a matter of degrees.

Since it’s a philosophical debate at this point, that’s not how “wrong” works.

No harm in underpromising and over delivering.

 

[Mach1E]

Tesla is playing by the rules as they are written. Good on them, lots of parking tickets are dismissed on technicalities, but if those technicalities are written into the rules, it's not wrong. Until the EPA changes the methodology, they haven't done anything wrong.

We disagree on the definition of “wrong.”

You can do all kinds of unethical and wrong things in business while still “following the rules.”

Some people believe that all is fair in love, war and business. They say things like “it’s just business, not personal….”

I’m not one of those people. But since this is venturing into the philosophical realm, it’s actually ok to agree to disagree.

 

[DevSecOps]

You’ve had a MME for like 9 days but yet you seem to have all the answer about the difference between a Tesla and Ford? Are you a Tesla plant? You seem to hate everything about the MME but love a Tesla! Am I not seeing your comments correctly?

Yeah you need to re-read everything... he's quite literally doing just the opposite.

 

[Gloff]

We disagree on the definition of “wrong.”

You can do all kinds of unethical and wrong things in business while still “following the rules.”

Some people believe that all is fair in love, war and business. They say things like “it’s just business, not personal….”

I’m not one of those people. But since this is venturing into the philosophical realm, it’s actually ok to agree to disagree.

I think the EPA should standardize range testing instead of allowing alternative adjustment factors. Until then, I don't fault Tesla for utilizing what they're entitled to utilize.

I agree that Tesla should use the lower test figures, but they're not going to. Should large companies stop using loopholes to avoid income taxes? Yeah, but good luck getting a for profit business to volunteer to give up more money when the rules state you don't have to.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

You’ve had a MME for like 9 days but yet you seem to have all the answer about the difference between a Tesla and Ford? Are you a Tesla plant? You seem to hate everything about the MME but love a Tesla! Am I not seeing your comments correctly?

Seems to be the opposite no? Seems much more critical of Tesla.

 

[DevSecOps]

I have a 22 GT. Estimated range 270. My combination city/highway consistently is range 275-297. I charged to 100% last night. Range 296. I put in my route which was 98% interstate. The GOM immediately changed to 260. I drove a consistent BC 75. The 260 appeared to be dead on accurate when I pulled into an EA charger adding 71 miles in 11 minutes.

Combination range is a pointless measurement. No one needs range if you're driving within a city. Range is only important on the freeway, traveling.

I sold my MME with 45k miles and 95% of it was freeway driving. I don't live in a city, everything is highway driving distance from me. I can tell you with 100% certainty that you're incorrect. A GTPE will not get anywhere close to the EPA at 75mph sustained traveling. Everyone in this thread who owns a GTPE has agreed with me.

260 miles on a GTPE is 2.9mi/kW and that's just not happening at 75mph. I get 2.4 if I'm lucky in perfect weather and 1.9-2.1 in colder temps.

 

[Mach1E]

I think the EPA should standardize range testing instead of allowing alternative adjustment factors. Until then, I don't fault Tesla for utilizing what they're entitled to utilize.

I agree that Tesla should use the lower test figures, but they're not going to. Should large companies stop using loopholes to avoid income taxes? Yeah, but good luck getting a for profit business to volunteer to give up more money when the rules state you don't have to.

For sure agree they should standardize things.

But I don’t think the tax loophole analogy applies.

Because most of the large companies didn’t decide to utilize this EPA “loophole.”

That tells you something.

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