Tesla!! when it is going to stop??

[heisnuts]

better sound quality?? Tesla has very good speaker but B&O are great and probably the best sound system Ive had in a car. I am a youtube music guy and unfortunately it is not available on tesla but it is on car play in MME

I mean the audio quality of Apple Music is better than the audio quality from SiriusXM, but I will say the Tesla system sounds as good if not better than the B&O in the MME.

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[Ghost Ryder]

It’s not lying and cheating.

However it’s not totally honest either.

If almost every other manufacturer uses the test that’s more realistic, it’s not totally honest to use the test that you KNOW inflates the numbers.

They also CHOOSE to use a more generous correction factor for the test.

The end result is confusion for the consumer and almost every review claiming a higher range for Tesla than the competitors. (Except any review that tests real world range and finds the opposite).

If you know the scale is broken….. sure it’s legal to use it, but is it ethical?

I don’t think it is.

This is a case of Don't hate the player, hate the game. I put blame on the EPA on this one for having 2 test cycle.

The scale is not broken, it's based on a different, accepted official standard.

To play devil's advocate, who made the the youtuber's test the definitive "real world range?" What if they decide to test all the cars at 85mph as that's the normal speed of Texas freeways. The Porsche and audi GT would sure do much better because of their 2 speed transmission compared to other EVs.

Tesla reported the EPA number based on an official EPA test cycle. No more, no less.

I will agree that there should be only on test cycle, just pick one so that there is no confusion and easier comparison.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

one thing I like to add about the tesla, I see people here complain about stiff suspension in MME. I am sure non of them rode in a tesla before. My model Y 2023 supposedly has an improved suspension to previous year. And if that the case we all should pray for older tesla model owner for not having a CTE from their ride. My model Y was the worst suspension I have ever experienced. My cousin has Hyundai elantra and it has much better suspension than the model Y. MME suspension feels like air suspension now to me. The body roll in tesla when you hit the smallest imperfection is horrible and will shake your body and you brain like a blinder

I have both a MYP and a GTPE. From the driver seat, they feel about the same, but when I'm in the back, the GTPE is definitely smoother and less jarring. I think the MYP has much less sound deadening material too, so it's noisier. Overall the GTPE is a more comfortable ride.

 

[richsi]

one thing I like to add about the tesla, I see people here complain about stiff suspension in MME. I am sure non of them rode in a tesla before. My model Y 2023 supposedly has an improved suspension to previous year. And if that the case we all should pray for older tesla model owner for not having a CTE from their ride. My model Y was the worst suspension I have ever experienced. My cousin has Hyundai elantra and it has much better suspension than the model Y. MME suspension feels like air suspension now to me. The body roll in tesla when you hit the smallest imperfection is horrible and will shake your body and you brain like a blinder

I agree with you about the Model Y, worst ride I have ever experienced. So I decided to try a Model X ($100K) and it was no better and road noise was terrible. So I tried a Model 3, quieter, a bit smoother and handling is amazing, so I can't explain it but it's true! But also, the ride of the Mach-E was outstanding. I even drove an Audi Q8 E-Tron, what a disappointment ($100K) with a Class-A build inside and out, with a failure in ride and EV performance, such a mediocre EV, total fail.

 

[RickMachE]

While access to Tesla super chargers does offer more options on popular routes there are still long wait times, there is a reason that Tesla had to expand the Harris Ranch station significantly due to this. I suspect that the baker station will be next as that one can also get full pretty quickly at certain times of year. When other manufactures start turning using the super chargers it is going to get even worse.

In California. In any other place I've ever driven, Tesla SuperCharger locations maybe have 25% to 50% occupancy, sometimes they are EMPTY. When we stopped in Moab, Utah, 1:30 on a huge tourist day (Saturday, the eclipse), there were no more than 4 chargers occupied at any one time.

California has more EVs than anywhere else. The infrastructure, no matter the brand, hasn't kept up with the number of vehicles produced.

Also, between early this year and end of 2024, Telsa has said they will DOUBLE the number of SuperChargers.

 

[HONEST ABE]

I have both a MYP and a GTPE. From the driver seat, they feel about the same, but when I'm in the back, the GTPE is definitely smoother and less jarring. I think the MYP has much less sound deadening material too, so it's noisier. Overall the GTPE is a more comfortable ride.

with all respect I don’t agree with that at all. Model y suspension problem is a weird one in my opinion. I believe it is related to the engineering of the vehicle more than the quality of the suspension. It feels ok from front to back when you go over pump but it feels horrible how it pushes you right left. I don’t know if I can describe the feeling but probably the closest thing to it would be being in one of these 4D rides or 4D movie theater where u feel someone is grabbing you from left to right. Sound isolation was very decent probably little less than the MME but good overall

 

[milepost1]

I just traded my 2023 Tesla model Y long range for Mach-E GT last month after owning the vehicle for 8 months putting 11k mile on it during that period
I was planning to write an extensive thread about my transition from tesla to Mach-e and the pros and cons of each. unfortunately after spending couple of hours on it, I did refresh the page and lost it all.
Anyway I just want to mention one of the biggest factor that made me trade the model Y, and how most reviewer online ignore that fact when comparing EVs
My biggest beef with Tesla is their continues lying about range and consumption. I am not going into the range they display on their screen because it is a joke and actually there is an active lawsuit against them due to that. My problem is how did the EPA rate the model Y long range with 19 in wheels at 330?? anyone who owned the vehicle or drove it for extended time will know that number is fictional no matter the conditions. Unlike most other EVs including Mach-E where the advertised range is attenable. I am from WV where it is kind of hilly so I definitely don't expect full range but at the same time not 210-235 which is around 65% of the advertised range. I drive like most people on interstate and try to keep my speed under 80 without crazy acceleration or deacceleration. Before my tesla I drove multiple ICE cars and I always get very close to the estimated MPG with exact style of driving and routes. I drove the tesla on more flat interstate in perfect conditions and the best I could get on HWY is around 245 probably, which is again significantly lower than the 330. On same flat roads my previous ICE gets higher MPGe than the advertised one. I've driving my Mach-E GT on the same roads and I get very similar range to what I was getting on the model Y, maybe fraction less 205-230 compared to 210-235 with tesla. The problem here we are talking about 2% real world range difference vs. 18% advertised range by EPA. I watched numerous videos and reviews for other EVs and the advertised range is very attenable or close enough to the EPA rating. Tesla is the only outlier when it comes to that, and it is mind boggling how people and especially reviewers don't call them out enough about it. To me the advertised range (330) was the deal breaker for to go with the model Y vs other EVs.
The other lie with Tesla numbers is consumption. So of course Tesla opt it out to use different units to measure their consumption unlike any other EV. They use watt/Mile vs Mile/KWH. just imagine for an ICE vehicle, a company decided to measure it is consumption in Liter/mile !!. I believe they did that intentionally to make it harder for an average consumer to compare it to other EV or even figure out the real energy consumption, and guess why? because it is fake and inaccurate. I used to average 300 watt/mile which translate to 3.33 mile/KWH (great figure for EV huh!!), but of course it is wrong. It is more like 3 mile/KWH (10% off). While the Mach-E the trip calculator (in my case) will display 2.5 mile/KWH but the actual one is closer to 2.6 mile/KWH.
I just don't understand how they can get away with these false advertising and falsified numbers. EPA needs to open an extensive investigation about the variation in ranges for tesla and other EVs where it was done by same agency and under similar conditions I assume!! but I doubt it because I am pretty sure it was not a mistake and it was done intentionally by the EPA
The listed MPGE for Model-Y is 117 mpge hwy vs 77 mpge for the Mach-E, which represent 50% advantage for the model-Y over the mach-E. According to my recent consumption for both vehicles under the same conditions I get around 3 mile/kwh for the model y vs 2.5 mile/kwh for the mach-E which is only 20% advantage for the model-Y. How come a same testing agency can have this huge margin of error (more the double)
Range and efficiency probably are the most important factors in picking an EV for most people and having an accurate numbers is so crucial for most consumer

Tesla payed for and used an alt test method, acceptable to EPA. The Mach e can work just like tesla. Reset driving ea drive. Will start at EPA until ypu drive a bit. I laugh eventide I see reset driving history to get more miles. Shows more miles but don't actually get more miles.

 

[TRP]

I've only test driven a Tesla Model X Plaid. Suspension and ride comfort compared to my Mach E PX4 was much better on city streets than my MachE. Wind noise was more noticeable in the X. I would have expected less noise for a $100k car.
Seats were better in the X and the speed in which the big screen responded was much better in the X. It was a rainy day so I can't say anything about heat from the glass roof vs that big ass windshield/roof

 

[e-pony]

I just traded my 2023 Tesla model Y long range for Mach-E GT last month after owning the vehicle for 8 months putting 11k mile on it during that period
I was planning to write an extensive thread about my transition from tesla to Mach-e and the pros and cons of each. unfortunately after spending couple of hours on it, I did refresh the page and lost it all.
Anyway I just want to mention one of the biggest factor that made me trade the model Y, and how most reviewer online ignore that fact when comparing EVs
My biggest beef with Tesla is their continues lying about range and consumption. I am not going into the range they display on their screen because it is a joke and actually there is an active lawsuit against them due to that. My problem is how did the EPA rate the model Y long range with 19 in wheels at 330?? anyone who owned the vehicle or drove it for extended time will know that number is fictional no matter the conditions. Unlike most other EVs including Mach-E where the advertised range is attenable. I am from WV where it is kind of hilly so I definitely don't expect full range but at the same time not 210-235 which is around 65% of the advertised range. I drive like most people on interstate and try to keep my speed under 80 without crazy acceleration or deacceleration. Before my tesla I drove multiple ICE cars and I always get very close to the estimated MPG with exact style of driving and routes. I drove the tesla on more flat interstate in perfect conditions and the best I could get on HWY is around 245 probably, which is again significantly lower than the 330. On same flat roads my previous ICE gets higher MPGe than the advertised one. I've driving my Mach-E GT on the same roads and I get very similar range to what I was getting on the model Y, maybe fraction less 205-230 compared to 210-235 with tesla. The problem here we are talking about 2% real world range difference vs. 18% advertised range by EPA. I watched numerous videos and reviews for other EVs and the advertised range is very attenable or close enough to the EPA rating. Tesla is the only outlier when it comes to that, and it is mind boggling how people and especially reviewers don't call them out enough about it. To me the advertised range (330) was the deal breaker for to go with the model Y vs other EVs.
The other lie with Tesla numbers is consumption. So of course Tesla opt it out to use different units to measure their consumption unlike any other EV. They use watt/Mile vs Mile/KWH. just imagine for an ICE vehicle, a company decided to measure it is consumption in Liter/mile !!. I believe they did that intentionally to make it harder for an average consumer to compare it to other EV or even figure out the real energy consumption, and guess why? because it is fake and inaccurate. I used to average 300 watt/mile which translate to 3.33 mile/KWH (great figure for EV huh!!), but of course it is wrong. It is more like 3 mile/KWH (10% off). While the Mach-E the trip calculator (in my case) will display 2.5 mile/KWH but the actual one is closer to 2.6 mile/KWH.
I just don't understand how they can get away with these false advertising and falsified numbers. EPA needs to open an extensive investigation about the variation in ranges for tesla and other EVs where it was done by same agency and under similar conditions I assume!! but I doubt it because I am pretty sure it was not a mistake and it was done intentionally by the EPA
The listed MPGE for Model-Y is 117 mpge hwy vs 77 mpge for the Mach-E, which represent 50% advantage for the model-Y over the mach-E. According to my recent consumption for both vehicles under the same conditions I get around 3 mile/kwh for the model y vs 2.5 mile/kwh for the mach-E which is only 20% advantage for the model-Y. How come a same testing agency can have this huge margin of error (more the double)
Range and efficiency probably are the most important factors in picking an EV for most people and having an accurate numbers is so crucial for most consumer

If you go 80 mph you probably lose 20% or more of range.

 

[HONEST ABE]

I've only test driven a Tesla Model X Plaid. Suspension and ride comfort compared to my Mach E PX4 was much better on city streets than my MachE. Wind noise was more noticeable in the X. I would have expected less noise for a $100k car.
Seats were better in the X and the speed in which the big screen responded was much better in the X. It was a rainy day so I can't say anything about heat from the glass roof vs that big ass windshield/roof

Model x and s have air suspension so it is completely different story.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

The tesla workers deserve a pay check and we gladly bought one to supportvthem Musk unfortuanetly will head the path of Howard Hughes. He will not be mourned.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. Hopefully he won't cross over. The world is better because of these individuals.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Tesla payed for and used an alt test method, acceptable to EPA. The Mach e can work just like tesla. Reset driving ea drive. Will start at EPA until ypu drive a bit. I laugh eventide I see reset driving history to get more miles. Shows more miles but don't actually get more miles.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of any additional fees to use one cycle vs. another. It's just 2 different test cycle. The one that tesla uses actually requires more work.

 

[Mach1E]

This is a case of Don't hate the player, hate the game. I put blame on the EPA on this one for having 2 test cycle.

The scale is not broken, it's based on a different, accepted official standard.

To play devil's advocate, who made the the youtuber's test the definitive "real world range?" What if they decide to test all the cars at 85mph as that's the normal speed of Texas freeways. The Porsche and audi GT would sure do much better because of their 2 speed transmission compared to other EVs.

Tesla reported the EPA number based on an official EPA test cycle. No more, no less.

I will agree that there should be only on test cycle, just pick one so that there is no confusion and easier comparison.

When it comes to ethics, I think it’s ok to hate the player and the game.

But yes, there is blame to go around.

Some people believe that “as long as you follow the rules,” then anything goes. I’m not one of those people.

For ethical dilemmas, I use a pretty simplistic view- I ask what is the “kindest“ or “best” thing to do. And try to do that thing.

Choosing the 5 cycle test isn’t the kindest nor best. It benefits Tesla over the consumer.

If I were a Tesla shareholder, I might applaud it. As a consumer, not so much.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

When it comes to ethics, I think it’s ok to hate the player and the game.

But yes, there is blame to go around.

Some people believe that “as long as you follow the rules,” then anything goes. I’m not one of those people.

For ethical dilemmas, I use a pretty simplistic view- I ask what is the “kindest“ or “best” thing to do. And try to do that thing.

Choosing the 5 cycle test isn’t the kindest nor best. It benefits Tesla over the consumer.

If I were a Tesla shareholder, I might applaud it. As a consumer, not so much.

That the thing though. There is no accepted agreed upon "real world range/test cycle." The closest we have from an official regulatory body is the EPA test cycle. The 5 cycle test is more vigorous than then the 2 cycle test. The 5 cycle test is what the EPA consider representative of the avg driver. Most of the test done by magazines, reviewers and youtubers are just take it on the interstate, drive it at a consistent speed until it dies. that's not very representative of the avg owner.

Tesla are much more aerodynamic then other brands. The Cd. is lowest in the industry. They would benefit compared to other EVs the faster they go. So if the test was done at a constant speed of 90mph, I'm sure that their numbers would look better than other OEMs.

What I'm saying is that until there is one agreed upon test, all you can say is that tesla did worst on this one particular test (auto reviewer test range) compared to other evs.

 

[Mach1E]

That the thing though. There is no accepted agreed upon "real world range/test cycle." The closest we have from an official regulatory body is the EPA test cycle. The 5 cycle test is more vigorous than then the 2 cycle test. The 5 cycle test is what the EPA consider representative of the avg driver. Most of the test done by magazines, reviewers and youtubers are just take it on the interstate, drive it at a consistent speed until it dies. that's not very representative of the avg owner.

Tesla are much more aerodynamic then other brands. The Cd. is lowest in the industry. They would benefit compared to other EVs the faster they go. So if the test was done at a constant speed of 90mph, I'm sure that their numbers would look better than other OEMs.

What I'm saying is that until there is one agreed upon test, all you can say is that tesla did worst on this one particular test (auto reviewer test range) compared to other evs.

There are 2 measuring sticks.

One everyone else uses.

One that gets you a 10% better result.

Tesla picks the latter.

End result? Inflated numbers, confused shoppers.

Two possible solutions-
1. EPA only gives one test option
2. Tesla picks the same test as everyone else

I would be happy with either solution.

The real world difference (in every real world test) isn’t because of aerodynamics, it’s because of the “correction factor” that Tesla chooses to use on their test.

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