Texas Tesla Tragedy

[Mirak]

BlueCruise is going to use mapped data AND sensor data. So, “which is better” isn’t an issue. ”both” is better than either one alone.

Again, that’s an oversimplification. The more accurate answer is maybe, depending upon how well the map data and sensors work together. And in the long run, I’d prefer that the sensors be good enough to fully rely upon them as my second set of eyes as opposed to factoring in map data which is neither precise enough nor updated enough to serve as anything more than a backup guide.

I’m not discounting map data. I think it is potentially a very good added safety measure in the short term.

Sponsored

 

[deadduck]

For fun, but relevant.

https://jalopnik.com/teslas-pr-department-hasnt-responded-to-me-for-months-a-1845279798

 

[Mirak]

Firstly, my Mach-E can “self drive” the same Way the Tesla is supposed to be used.

No. As I’ve detailed above, the Tesla FSD offers much greater autonomous functionality. It is valid to question the safety of those things, but can we please stick to some semblance of facts!!

 

[macchiaz-o]

I believe you are a little confused on the SAE levels. BlueCruise will be a full Level 2 and seems to reach what is often referred to as 2+. However, Level 3 does not require an alert driver. BlueCruise requires the driver to remain alert to monitor the environment and that is what the eye tracking seeks to assure.

Precisely.

We need to stop referring to these systems as "self driving" or "autonomous." They are neither. They are driver assistance systems, nothing more.

Ford is working on autonomous vehicles, by the way, but NOT with Mustang Mach-E hardware. Ford's efforts have been centered on their partnership and deep investment with Argo AI.

Two different paths, two different customers. ADAS on passenger vehicles (Ford Co-Pilot 360 suite) and efforts towards level 4 automation on special purpose vehicles (Argo AI).

 

[BMT1071]

Again, that’s an oversimplification. The more accurate answer is maybe, depending upon how well the map data and sensors work together. And in the long run, I’d prefer that the sensors be good enough to fully rely upon them as my second set of eyes as opposed to factoring in map data which is neither precise enough nor updated enough to serve as anything more than a backup guide.

I’m not discounting map data. I think it is potentially a very good added safety measure in the short term.

You do realize they are using precision map data not just Apple Maps, right?

 

[pt19713]

Local firefighters probably weren't trained or prepared for a lithium ion battery fire. I know here in the Mid-Atlantic region, many of the firefighters are trained and ready for EV fires. Don't quote me on this but there are certain types of compounds that can suppress the fire and starving it of oxygen and lowering the heat. My wife mentioned to me what's needed (she's a chemist) but I wasn't really listening.

 

[pt19713]

The car shouldn't allow self driving if someone is not in the drivers seat.

People still find ways to circumvent the pressure needed on the wheel and weight needed on the driver's seat.
The article also states a 'high speed' collision but FSD/AP only allows 5 mph over the limit on these types of streets. If the speed limit was 15 mph, the most the car would do in AP/FSD is 20 mph. If it's 25 mph, then 30 mph. There's no way to bypass this mechanism since the car puts you in AP/FSD jail mode and you have to drive the car manually until it's stopped and put into park. If this was a high speed crash, AP/FSD wouldn't be engage.

 

[jhalkias]

Local firefighters probably weren't trained or prepared for a lithium ion battery fire. I know here in the Mid-Atlantic region, many of the firefighters are trained and ready for EV fires. Don't quote me on this but there are certain types of compounds that can suppress the fire and starving it of oxygen and lowering the heat. My wife mentioned to me what's needed (she's a chemist) but I wasn't really listening.

Imagine that. I have that trait too.

People still find ways to circumvent the pressure needed on the wheel and weight needed on the driver's seat.
The article also states a 'high speed' collision but FSD/AP only allows 5 mph over the limit on these types of streets. If the speed limit was 15 mph, the most the car would do in AP/FSD is 20 mph. If it's 25 mph, then 30 mph. There's no way to bypass this mechanism since the car puts you in AP/FSD jail mode and you have to drive the car manually until it's stopped and put into park. If this was a high speed crash, AP/FSD wouldn't be engage.

Unless the driver was thrown from the front to the back (not totally impossible) how else could this happen then?

 

[mburtsvt]

So how many Tesla drivers must die before Musk calls this what it really is..Just B.S. How many more Elon 1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9..10, I'm not finished yet…11.12..13..14…15…16…17….18…19…20? Elon - email me when I hit the number.

 

[Mirak]

You do realize they are using precision map data not just Apple Maps, right?

Yes, I do. I highly doubt that data will be updated in real-time for construction, obstructions, etc. The mapping data, no matter how precise, is a supplement. A temporary crutch. Long term, better sensor tech will ultimately be the safer way to go. And none of us know how well BlueCruise will work or how well the mapping data will work with the sensors, so we can’t just automatically assume that one approach is inherently safer than another.

I’m not trying to defend Tesla. I love my MME. But so many of these posts just aren’t really thinking through the nuances or giving any credit to the autonomous functionality Tesla currently offers.

 

[jhalkias]

I’m not trying to defend Tesla. I love my MME. But so many of these posts just aren’t really thinking through the nuances or giving any credit to the autonomous ADAS functionality Tesla currently offers.

Fixed that for you.

 

[EVS]

Imagine that. I have that trait too.

Unless the driver was thrown from the front to the back (not totally impossible) how else could this happen then?

He is describing the expected/desired behavior. What if the software has bugs and loopholes? Saying this is what's in the manual and this is exactly how it must have been in real life is ignoring the possibility of corner case bugs. Does Tesla even test its software and hardware in real life? It has 0 test miles in California. They released the Model 3 without doing any kind of brake testing. Tesla needed Consumer Reports to find the issue with its own tests. Look at Tesla's quality control on its cars. Anyone thinking Tesla does some testing to ensure the car behaves how it is supposed to is unaware of its history of negligence.

There is a video on Chinese social media showing her Tesla is accelerating without her pressing the accelerator pedal. Is this in the manual?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-...mans-auto-show-protest-goes-viral-11618835609

 

[trutolife27]

People are dead and we have argued over self-driving or not. Your minds may be pure but some hearts are not. I pray things get labeled and corrected before this happens again.

 

[EVS]

@Mirak , Not just Ford fanatics or the forum members here. Consumer Reports placed Tesla's AutoPilot a distant second to GM's cruise. Ford's BlueCruise wasn't in the market to test at that time. CoPilot 360 came in little behind at 3rd place.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/28/gms-super-cruise-tops-teslas-autopilot-in-consumer-reports-testing.html#:~:text=General Motors' Super Cruise system,points in Consumer Reports' testing.

General Motors’ Super Cruise system topped Consumer Reports testing of assisted driving technology, leaving Tesla’s Autopilot “a distant second,” the consumer research nonprofit reported Wednesday.

Super Cruise on a Cadillac CT6 sedan scored 69 out of 100 points in Consumer Reports’ testing. Tesla’s Autopilot on a Model Y was second at 57, followed by Ford Motor’s Co-pilot 360 system at 52 and Audi’s Pre-sense at 48. Consumer Reports evaluated 17 systems as part of its testing.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

Unless the driver was thrown from the front to the back (not totally impossible) how else could this happen then?

This what I said back on page one. We may all be arguing over something that didn’t even happen. The driver very well may have been in the driver’s seat showing off how fast his EV can go. In full control. He hits a tree. Seat back breaks. Airbags go off. He’s punched into the back seat. The body then burns for 3 hours. Muscles contract. Seat frames melt. We’ve got a charred skeleton “sitting” where the back seat used to be. Local Fire Department, who are just bright enough to use 32000 gallons of water to try and put out a chemical fire, concludes that nobody was driving. Then a bunch of internet cowboys take them at their word and start arguing online. ?

I’d say let’s wait for the smart folks at the NTSB to determine just what did happen, but it looks like the evidence is probably all burned up. So I’ll leave it to you folks to argue some more based on the supposition of a poorly trained firefighter and an internet media sensationalist.

Sponsored