Texas Tesla Tragedy

[The Electric Duo]

Again... This is a "But what about blah blah?" excuse. People are less worried about the issue with Ford because Ford doesn't promote there system as being so competent that a driver is not needed.

Yes, Ford, Tesla, GM, BMW, etc. should all work on their driver management systems. That is besides the point.

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[JoeDimwit]

I think they were just testing how easy it would be to misuse Copilot360 accidently if the driver was under the mistaken impression it could hand over driving duties to the Copilot.

This just highlights how safety conscious Tesla is when they make it as difficult as possible to misuse the system.

Of course any system can be abused but this subject comes up because so many have insisted that Tesla doesn't care about safety and that it's easy for people to mistakenly think they can let the car drive with no one in the driver's seat. We can see that's false with the short test featured in the video. Very informative!

I didn't see them do anything "accidentally". They were intentionally attempting to defeat the system by ignoring the manufactures instructions for proper use.

 

[buffasnow]

It's fake outrage over the name of Autopilot since autopilot had nothing to do with this accident. The evidence shows it wasn't turned on and there was a driver in the driver's seat at the time of impact.

Trying to think of a recent public figure whose credibility was enhanced by claiming things they did not like were "fake".

Has there been an official public statement from Tesla that autopilot was not engaged in this car just before or at the time of the accident? Tweets don't count. The statement on the earnings call said that in Tesla's attempt to recreate the accident, they could only engage autopilot with a buckled driver and speed >5mph. And that in their test, the car would only get up to 30MPH before the "crash:".

>" In that vein, we did a study with them over the past week to understand
>what happened in that particular crash. And what we've learned from that
>effort was that Autosteer did not and could not engage on the road condition
>that -- as it was designed. Our adaptive cruise control only engage when a
>driver was buckled in about 5 miles per hour. And it only accelerated to 30
>miles per hour with the distance before the car crashed. "

Please link to the specific evidence that shows the autopilot was not on in this specific accident. And that the driver's seat was occupied at the time of the crash.

If you want to speculate, please present it as such, otherwise it is probably best to wait until the official investigation is complete.

 

[LagerHead]

Exactly, any system can be abused so the focus is on the company that encourages that abuse by posting their own videos showing that abuse.

Except Tesla videos don't encourage abuse, they merely demonstrate that the driver is not using steering inputs to keep the car on course - the Autopilot is doing it without user input. That's all that video shows. There is no more reason to keep your hands on the wheel of a Tesla on Autopilot than there is in a Mach-e with Copilot 360 (except for the safety system that nags you in a Tesla to encourage the driver to operate in a safe manner). The Ford system doesn't care if it putting your hands to the wheel in an emergency lengthens reaction time by a fraction of a second.

This whole "Tesla is unsafe" thing is making a mountain out of nothing. Copilot360 is many more times likely to require user intervention than Autopilot and yet Ford doesn't even instruct you to keep your hands on the wheel.

Now you tell me which is more safe.

 

[LagerHead]

No, I'm afraid there are morons driving every make under the sun. If you think Ford is immune to moronic drivers then you are really brainwashed. And if you believe people hear "copilot" and only use it responsibly while the dangerous term "Autopilot" causes abuse, then I have some Florida waterfront to sell at a really good deal.

It's hard for me to fathom the pure idiocy I've seen posted on this subject.

 

[buffasnow]

The crash was not witnessed until approximately 15 minutes after it crashed and two people reporting a car engulfed in flames. Anyone who has taken witness statements can tell you how unreliable witnesses are. Always go with direct physical evidence over witness statements.

Agreed, witnesses can be unreliable at times, especially long after the fact. This does not seem very long. Even if the witness did not provide the verbatim conversation, it seems pretty likely that they got the gist of it.

Somehow the car got off the ground to expose a fresh, white strip of the cambium layer under the bark of the tree 10 feet off the ground. If the car didn't travel up the tree then how did the bark get scraped 10 feet off the ground?

Please post the timestamped photos from before and after the accident proving that you know this vehicle caused these bark scratches on these trees during the accident.

I mean, the steering wheel was even found bent from driver impact. What more do you want to know that there was a driver in the driver's seat?

You know the wheel was bent from impact exactly how? As opposed to bending from getting really hot in, say, a fire? Or some other way?

You should be criticizing the elected official who said they were "100% certain" there was no one in the driver's seat at the time of impact. There is no way they could know that in the first few hours of the investigation and it was extremely unprofessional to leap to conclusions before all the evidence was examined. Instead, you criticize a system that wasn't even activated simply because it's named "Autopilot". It's just ridiculous.

The elected official could be wrong, but it seems they were relying on quite a bit more hard data and witness statements than any of us here have, including you.

 

[The Electric Duo]

Except Tesla videos don't encourage abuse, they merely demonstrate that the driver is not using steering inputs to keep the car on course - the Autopilot is doing it without user input. That's all that video shows. There is no more reason to keep your hands on the wheel of a Tesla on Autopilot than there is in a Mach-e with Copilot 360 (except for the safety system that nags you in a Tesla to encourage the driver to operate in a safe manner). The Ford system doesn't care if it putting your hands to the wheel in an emergency lengthens reaction time by a fraction of a second.

This whole "Tesla is unsafe" thing is making a mountain out of nothing. Copilot360 is many more times likely to require user intervention than Autopilot and yet Ford doesn't even instruct you to keep your hands on the wheel.

Now you tell me which is more safe.

When you are selling a system that is only Level 2 driver assistance but you demo it as saying the driver is unnecessary, that leads to abuse. This is why there are so many people that post videos showing AutoPilot abuse. This is why you see people posting all the time about how Tesla's drive themselves. I even had someone tell me they love using AutoPilot when they've had too much to drink.

You are also a bit confused about the details for AutoPilot, CoPilot 360's ICC, and BlueCruise.

 

[LagerHead]

Trying to think of a recent public figure whose credibility was enhanced by claiming things they did not like were "fake".

Has there been an official public statement from Tesla that autopilot was not engaged in this car just before or at the time of the accident? Tweets don't count. The statement on the earnings call said that in Tesla's attempt to recreate the accident, they could only engage autopilot with a buckled driver and speed >5mph. And that in their test, the car would only get up to 30MPH before the "crash:".

>" In that vein, we did a study with them over the past week to understand
>what happened in that particular crash. And what we've learned from that
>effort was that Autosteer did not and could not engage on the road condition
>that -- as it was designed. Our adaptive cruise control only engage when a
>driver was buckled in about 5 miles per hour. And it only accelerated to 30
>miles per hour with the distance before the car crashed. "

Please link to the specific evidence that shows the autopilot was not on in this specific accident. And that the driver's seat was occupied at the time of the crash.

If you want to speculate, please present it as such, otherwise it is probably best to wait until the official investigation is complete.

Elon would not lie about what the telemetry contained because that would only compound matters if it was determined he made it up. Also, the steering wheel was bent as if the driver impacted it. We know there had to be a driver in the driver's seat too. Besides, it's outside the scope of what 60 year old doctors do to jury rig the car to drive itself on a road with no lane markings. No, not gonna happen. Use your brains people - the evidence is clear yet some of you chose to continue to believe obvious FUD.

I can't believe how gullible some people are for the Tesla FUD.

If someone said "Tesla bribed the crash test results to give them the highest ratings in the industry", some of you would actually believe it without a shred of real evidence. Yup, it's true 'cause I read it. If it's written and published it must be true. That's how gullible some people are. It's actually sad.

 

[buffasnow]

buffasnow said:
Trying to think of a recent public figure whose credibility was enhanced by claiming things they did not like were "fake".

Has there been an official public statement from Tesla that autopilot was not engaged in this car just before or at the time of the accident? Tweets don't count. The statement on the earnings call said that in Tesla's attempt to recreate the accident, they could only engage autopilot with a buckled driver and speed >5mph. And that in their test, the car would only get up to 30MPH before the "crash:".

>" In that vein, we did a study with them over the past week to understand
>what happened in that particular crash. And what we've learned from that
>effort was that Autosteer did not and could not engage on the road condition
>that -- as it was designed. Our adaptive cruise control only engage when a
>driver was buckled in about 5 miles per hour. And it only accelerated to 30
>miles per hour with the distance before the car crashed. "

Please link to the specific evidence that shows the autopilot was not on in this specific accident. And that the driver's seat was occupied at the time of the crash.

If you want to speculate, please present it as such, otherwise it is probably best to wait until the official investigation is complete.

Elon would not lie about what the telemetry contained because that would only compound matters if it was determined he made it up. Also, the steering wheel was bent as if the driver impacted it. We know there had to be a driver in the driver's seat too. Besides, it's outside the scope of what 60 year old doctors do to jury rig the car to drive itself on a road with no lane markings. No, not gonna happen. Use your brains people - the evidence is clear yet some of you chose to continue to believe obvious FUD.

I can't believe how gullible some people are for the Tesla FUD.

If someone said "Tesla bribed the crash test results to give them the highest ratings in the industry", some of you would actually believe it without a shred of real evidence. Yup, it's true 'cause I read it. If it's written and published it must be true. That's how gullible some people are. It's actually sad.

I'll take this to mean that you have no evidence.

 

[LagerHead]

Please post the timestamped photos from before and after the accident proving that you know this vehicle caused these bark scratches on these trees during the accident.

You're right! It could have been the UFO that crashed into the tree and scraped the bark off right before the accident so the cambium layer was still bright white and unoxidized. The mothership must have teleported the crashed UFO back to the mothership right before the doctor in the Tesla crashed into the exact same spot!

Why didn't I think of that?

I hope you realize how ridiculous you appear by doubting a scar that fresh was caused by anything other than the car that had just crashed in that exact spot. The cambium layer under the bark oxidizes very rapidly and loses it's white color so we know the scrape happened that day. It would be quite a coincidence if another car crashed in that exact same spot on the same day on such a lonely residential dead-end in high-end neighborhood.

Just wow!

 

[LagerHead]

This is why you see people posting all the time about how Tesla's drive themselves. I even had someone tell me they love using AutoPilot when they've had too much to drink.

That's so irresponsible to use Autopilot after drinking! I always make sure I'm paying full attention and driving manually.

 

[MachE1977]

I skipped over it because it is a dumb stunt. Where does Ford show that it is safe to remove your seatbelt while driving? Does Ford post anywhere one its website that the driver is only there because of regulations?

On the other hand, if you go to the Tesla AutoPilot webpage, it has a demo of someone in a Tesla and never touching the steering wheel. The beginning text claims the driver is only there because of regulations.

One company literally promotes dangerous behavior and got called out for it. Now Tesla stans are using the excuse "What about ....?" That is a poor excuse.

Show me where Tesla shows its safe to get out of your seat and go to sleep in the back? Show em where Tesla says keep your hands off the steering wheel. Where does Tesla say this is NOW fully capable of self driving....... and yeah "Tesla Stan" who has owned a Ford Zx2, ZX2 s/r, Focus ST, Focus RS and now looking to jump in to a Mach-E.

But please keep thinking everyone is against Ford, on the contrary, Fords success will help Tesla get their head out of their arse. This one issue with Tesla having to take responsibility for other peoples stupid action is what pisses me off, personal responsibility has left the building because everyone else should be taking care of us as we are not capable of knowing right from wrong anymore smh

And I agree, Ford has no promotions or videos with hands free driving..... none at all....

 

[buffasnow]

You're right! It could have been the UFO that crashed into the tree and scraped the bark off right before the accident so the cambium layer was still bright white and unoxidized. The mothership must have teleported the crashed UFO back to the mothership right before the doctor in the Tesla crashed into the exact same spot!

Why didn't I think of that?

I hope you realize how ridiculous you appear by doubting a scar that fresh was caused by anything other than the car that had just crashed in that exact spot. The cambium layer under the bark oxidizes very rapidly and loses it's white color so we know the scrape happened that day. It would be quite a coincidence if another car crashed in that exact same spot on the same day on such a lonely residential dead-end in high-end neighborhood.

Just wow!

I said nothing about aliens.

Scars on a tree may be from an accident, maybe not. Seeing them there is an observation. Stating definitively that they were due to this particular crash is speculation, unless you were there. Of course, we know from the forum that witness statements are unreliable, so I asked for video/photo documentation.

You keep making statements based on "evidence". Please provide the evidence.

 

[The Electric Duo]

Show me where Tesla shows its safe to get out of your seat and go to sleep in the back? Show em where Tesla says keep your hands off the steering wheel. Where does Tesla say this is NOW fully capable of self driving....... and yeah "Tesla Stan" who has owned a Ford Zx2, ZX2 s/r, Focus ST, Focus RS and now looking to jump in to a Mach-E.

But please keep thinking everyone is against Ford, on the contrary, Fords success will help Tesla get their head out of their arse. This one issue with Tesla having to take responsibility for other peoples stupid action is what pisses me off, personal responsibility has left the building because everyone else should be taking care of us as we are not capable of knowing right from wrong anymore smh

Go look at the Tesla AutoPilot page. Go look at ANY interview with Elon in a Tesla. Listen to what he says at the annual AI day.

They don't say get out of the seat and take a nap. They say the driver is unnecessary.

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