Texas Tesla Tragedy

[MachE1977]

Go look at the Tesla AutoPilot page. Go look at ANY interview with Elon in a Tesla. Listen to what he says at the annual AI day.

They don't say get out of the seat and take a nap. They say the driver is unnecessary.

Elon Musk is the same guy who said autonomous driving would be here right now and robotaxis and mars.....

I guess I don't get why everyone holds that man to his every word, I really don't. I get people hate him for whatever reason, but to say its his fault for people doing stupid things is ridiculous.

Sponsored

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

Elon Musk is the same guy who said autonomous driving would be here right now and robotaxis and mars.....

I guess I don't get why everyone holds that man to his every word, I really don't. I get people hate him for whatever reason, but to say its his fault for people doing stupid things is ridiculous.

He, and Tesla, can't have it both ways.
"We have the best EV!" <<< Believe this!!
"Drivers aren't necessary in our car because it drives itself!" <<<Don't believe this
"AutoPilot wasn't on in that crash." <<<Believe this!!

They fired their entire PR department so he is now even more the voice of the company.

 

[trutolife27]

He, and Tesla, can't have it both ways.
"We have the best EV!" <<< Believe this!!
"Drivers aren't necessary in our car because it drives itself!" <<<Don't believe this
"AutoPilot wasn't on in that crash." <<<Believe this!!

They fired their entire PR department so he is now even more the voice of the company.

some one is preaching facts. preach preacher.

 

[pt19713]

Except Tesla videos don't encourage abuse, they merely demonstrate that the driver is not using steering inputs to keep the car on course - the Autopilot is doing it without user input. That's all that video shows. There is no more reason to keep your hands on the wheel of a Tesla on Autopilot than there is in a Mach-e with Copilot 360 (except for the safety system that nags you in a Tesla to encourage the driver to operate in a safe manner). The Ford system doesn't care if it putting your hands to the wheel in an emergency lengthens reaction time by a fraction of a second.

This whole "Tesla is unsafe" thing is making a mountain out of nothing. Copilot360 is many more times likely to require user intervention than Autopilot and yet Ford doesn't even instruct you to keep your hands on the wheel.

Now you tell me which is more safe.

I gave up a few pages ago. You aren't going to convince a select few. They'll continue regardless of the facts. The hate is real.

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

From IIHS in 2019. It shows there are a lot of problems across the board but which manufacturer is the most problematic? Do you think it will have gotten better or worse since then?

 

[LagerHead]

what would you have the car do? just careen about uncontrolled? I agree that if the drivers seat somehow becomes unoccupied the car should come to a controlled stop on the shoulder of the road, but without lane changing capabilities, how does this safely happen? stopping in the middle of traffic isn't safe either.

Im not saying you're wrong, Im genuinely curious, and this is an interesting question. As for the seatbelt being involved, there is no evidence that wearing a seatbelt increases a persons ability to safely pilot a car or truck.

Did you watch the second half of the short video? The part that shows how Autopilot handles that exact situation?

Autopilot beeps at the driver as soon as the seatbelt is unbuckled and a message pops up on the screen. The car maintains it's position in the lane but starts gradually slowing down unless the driver buckles the belt again and has hands on the wheel to demonstrate readiness to take over at moments notice.

That's what I would recommend.

 

[LagerHead]

From IIHS in 2019. It shows there are a lot of problems across the board but which manufacturer is the most problematic? Do you think it will have gotten better or worse since then?

That reflects very poorly on driver's in general and the higher numbers for Tesla are likely a direct result of how capable the surveyed drivers perceive the system to be from past experience. Especially the "Hands Off Steering Wheel" category.

Not saying those are good judgements, just that it's a direct reflection of the relative levels of reliability the various systems demonstrate.

 

[Mirak]

Good lord all this sniping back and forth when not a single one of us is privy to the investigation.

I think any reasonable person, even Tesla enthusiasts, should be able to agree that Tesla has irresponsibly marketed the capabilities of “Autopilot.”

As for whether this particular owner did something really stupid in the driver seat, or something really really stupid involving AP from the back seat, we’ll know this with relative certainty when the investigation is concluded. The driver seatbelt buckle will tell the tale. If the buckle is found disconnected at the crash site, we know Autopilot couldn’t have been in use, so the driver was likely sitting in the front seat. If the buckle was found fastened at the crash site, then the driver was likely pulling a stupid Autopilot stunt from the backseat, where his body was found. There is no logical reason why he would have (a) buckled the driver seatbelt and then sat on top of it, or (b) buckled the driver seatbelt after the crash. A deformed steering wheel is useful evidence but can be caused by other things. The seatbelt buckle is key. Wait for the investigation results.

 

[LagerHead]

Again... This is a "But what about blah blah?" excuse. People are less worried about the issue with Ford because Ford doesn't promote there system as being so competent that a driver is not needed.

Tesla is developing FSD. The video you were referring to clearly stated the viewer was witnessing development software that was not available to the public. At no time has Tesla ever said that currently available systems do not require a driver with hands on the wheel at all times for safety reasons.

Why have so many of you been misled on this very basic point?

Because you listen to people who want to harm Tesla's image. Tesla has always been consistent and steadfast that currently available systems require hands on the wheel.

 

[LagerHead]

Go look at the Tesla AutoPilot page. Go look at ANY interview with Elon in a Tesla. Listen to what he says at the annual AI day.

They don't say get out of the seat and take a nap. They say the driver is unnecessary.

Tesla has never said a driver is not necessary for any system they have available to the public today. Even development versions of FSD available to a subset of owners require hands on the wheel and this is clearly communicated by Tesla in multiple ways using language that cannot be misconstrued.

Yet, Tesla is allowed to talk about their future, a future they believe will not require a driver. There is nothing wrong with talking about the company's roadmap.

 

[MachE1977]

Tesla has never said a driver is not necessary for any system they have available to the public today. Even development versions of FSD available to a subset of owners require hands on the wheel and this is clearly communicated by Tesla in multiple ways using language that cannot be misconstrued.

Yet, Tesla is allowed to talk about their future, a future they believe will not require a driver. There is nothing wrong with talking about the company's roadmap.

In todays society, you have to be on one side or the other, there is no in between. Same crap on the Tesla forums. This has always been the case in the enthusiast world too.

 

[LagerHead]

He, and Tesla, can't have it both ways.
"We have the best EV!" <<< Believe this!!
"Drivers aren't necessary in our car because it drives itself!" <<<Don't believe this
"AutoPilot wasn't on in that crash." <<<Believe this!!

They fired their entire PR department so he is now even more the voice of the company.

The "Best EV" is a matter of personal opinion. I will point out that the fine folks at MotorTrend recently gave the nod to the Tesla Model Y over the Mach-e. I find that particularly notable considering that MotorTrend doesn't get any money from Tesla but they get bucketfuls from Ford (in addition to other industry 'benefits', haha). So, yes, I think you have to take notice when real car guys choose the only company that doesn't pay their salaries and keep the lights on.

Tesla never said currently available cars don't require a driver with hands on the wheels and no one has provided a single example of Tesla saying that. Why is that?

Musk said Autopilot wasn't activated in the Texas crash because he has access to the telemetry data that shows Autopilot wasn't activated before the crash. And investigators will have access to that same data too so there is no incentive to lie about it.

Public relations department exist to cause you to think more favorably about their company. PR, get it? And guess who pays for that cost? That's right, you do, their customers! They have YOU pay to convince you how great their products are! I'm glad Tesla fired their PR department - it makes their cars a slightly better value. I don't want to pay the manufacturer of my car to convince me it's good - I want the product, and the value it offers, to speak for itself!

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

That reflects very poorly on driver's in general and the higher numbers for Tesla are likely a direct result of how capable the surveyed drivers perceive the system to be from past experience. Especially the "Hands Off Steering Wheel" category.

Not saying those are good judgements, just that it's a direct reflection of the relative levels of reliability the various systems demonstrate.

Perception is reality. Tesla has misled and therefore the perception is wrong. You can argue as much as you want (and the other Tesla stans) that the fine print is there or it is in the manual, but the reality is that they have created the misconception that AutoPilot makes a driver unnecessary for many people. The chart indicates that very fact for Tesla and to a lesser degree some of the others. I don't hate Tesla. I think their technology is fantastic. But Tesla is staking the claim that they are the leader in autonomous driving. As such, they should lead the way in driver management systems. They should also expect to get the most attention when it comes to criticism. Again, they can't have it both ways. They can't have all the praise but ignore any of the criticisms.

 

[LagerHead]

In todays society, you have to be on one side or the other, there is no in between. Same crap on the Tesla forums. This has always been the case in the enthusiast world too.

I don't have to be on one side or the other. I want to be free to call it how I see it. But there is so much anti-Tesla BS it makes it appear I'm only on one side. If people were saying the Mach-e is a crappy car that's unreliable, I'm going to defend it.

Of course if they say it's not as good as a value as a Model Y, I would have no choice but to agree!

 

[LagerHead]

Perception is reality. Tesla has misled and therefore the perception is wrong. You can argue as much as you want (and the other Tesla stans) that the fine print is there or it is in the manual, but the reality is that they have created the misconception that AutoPilot makes a driver unnecessary for many people. The chart indicates that very fact for Tesla and to a lesser degree some of the others. I don't hate Tesla. I think their technology is fantastic. But Tesla is staking the claim that they are the leader in autonomous driving. As such, they should lead the way in driver management systems. They should also expect to get the most attention when it comes to criticism. Again, they can't have it both ways. They can't have all the praise but ignore any of the criticisms.

Tesla ignores unfounded criticism. There is so much of it they have no choice. Genuine criticism, that which is not based on FUD, they listen to and carefully consider. Anyone who has owned a Tesla for any length of time has seen how responsive Tesla is to our requests.

Sponsored