The 1PD brake light algorithm needs fixed

[sukhoi_584th]

In the past couple months I haven't been behind very many MMEs for long periods of time on the freeway, but two of them had had the brake lights going off like strobe lights. This is presumably from 1PD. One was completely ridiculous, and one was just quite annoying. Yet I'm not sure I've ever seen a Tesla going off at that sort of frequency. I understand the DOT regulates brake light illumination based on deceleration rates, but somehow Tesla has avoided the brake lights doing that. Maybe their 1PD doesn't brake quite as hard immediately upon lifting the accelerator pedal? It would be nice if Ford would fix this, as the current situation essentially results in the 1PD driver constantly crying wolf, and the following drivers losing attention on the braking of the MME in front. Not a great situation for safety.

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[ChasingCoral]

In the past couple months I haven't been behind very many MMEs for long periods of time on the freeway, but two of them had had the brake lights going off like strobe lights. This is presumably from 1PD. One was completely ridiculous, and one was just quite annoying. Yet I'm not sure I've ever seen a Tesla going off at that sort of frequency. I understand the DOT regulates brake light illumination based on deceleration rates, but somehow Tesla has avoided the brake lights doing that. Maybe their 1PD doesn't brake quite as hard immediately upon lifting the accelerator pedal? It would be nice if Ford would fix this, as the current situation essentially results in the 1PD driver constantly crying wolf, and the following drivers losing attention on the braking of the MME in front. Not a great situation for safety.

I have followed my Mach E and seen other Mach Es on the road and have never seen this.

 

[JamieGeek]

They could be "new" drivers just getting used to 1-P. Many people starting to drive in 1-P don't feather it enough and end up making the car porpose with brake on/brake off cycles (and making their passenger's seasick).

That isn't a fault of the car's algorithm, however.

 

[Polar]

Never blame on software what is likely caused by a bad driver. (More specificity new to 1pd, remember all the people who say EVs with their regen and 1pd make them and their passengers feel car sick - that’s why)

They are probably just busy watching the lighting bolt go green/blue on their dash ? Only joking @Kitten - I wish my Select had the power/regen indicator!!

 

[sukhoi_584th]

Never blame on software what is likely caused by a bad driver. (More specificity new to 1pd, remember all the people who say EVs with their regen and 1pd make them and their passengers feel car sick - that’s why)

They are probably just busy watching the lighting bolt go green/blue on their dash ? Only joking @Kitten - I wish my Select had the power/regen indicator!!

Why blame the driver? How is the driver supposed to know? It's not like there's a 4th brake light on the dash that comes on and off with the real ones. Even if the lightning bolt does work in sync with the brake lights apparently the UX isn't very clear about that. Training the operator is never the best corrective action for a failure mode.

Although there are far more Teslas than MMEs on the roads, I can't remember ever seeing a Tesla act as badly as I've seen two MMEs. Therefore my conclusion is there is some functional difference in the way the two manufacturers implement brake light illumination for 1PD. The vehicle drivers must be considered a constant between the two manufacturers.

 

[SnBGC]

In the past couple months I haven't been behind very many MMEs for long periods of time on the freeway, but two of them had had the brake lights going off like strobe lights. This is presumably from 1PD. One was completely ridiculous, and one was just quite annoying. Yet I'm not sure I've ever seen a Tesla going off at that sort of frequency. I understand the DOT regulates brake light illumination based on deceleration rates, but somehow Tesla has avoided the brake lights doing that. Maybe their 1PD doesn't brake quite as hard immediately upon lifting the accelerator pedal? It would be nice if Ford would fix this, as the current situation essentially results in the 1PD driver constantly crying wolf, and the following drivers losing attention on the braking of the MME in front. Not a great situation for safety.

How are you sure they were driving in 1PD?

 

[SnBGC]

Why blame the driver? How is the driver supposed to know? It's not like there's a 4th brake light on the dash that comes on and off with the real ones. Even if the lightning bolt does work in sync with the brake lights apparently the UX isn't very clear about that. Training the operator is never the best corrective action for a failure mode.

Although there are far more Teslas than MMEs on the roads, I can't remember ever seeing a Tesla act as badly as I've seen two MMEs. Therefore my conclusion is there is some functional difference in the way the two manufacturers implement brake light illumination for 1PD. The vehicle drivers must be considered a constant between the two manufacturers.

From my recollection when test driving a Tesla.....
When lifting off the accelerator, the regen is immediate and near maximum.

In the Mach-E, there is a delay. Presumably so the driver can reposition themselves for comfort during extended drives. Or perhaps to limit the excessive regen that can occur unintentionally. It might be possible those drivers were trying to find a way to get comfortable and they were trying different foot positions? Just guessing

I know when I try and use 1PD in the Mach-E, my foot and leg get fatigued after only 10 or 15 miles so I end up turning it off. I can and do use 1PD in other EVs though. I don't have that same issue with any other car (so far that is....)

 

[Polar]

Why blame the driver?

I work in IT and support users on a daily basis… That is why.

 

[Kitten]

In the past couple months I haven't been behind very many MMEs for long periods of time on the freeway, but two of them had had the brake lights going off like strobe lights. This is presumably from 1PD. One was completely ridiculous, and one was just quite annoying. Yet I'm not sure I've ever seen a Tesla going off at that sort of frequency. I understand the DOT regulates brake light illumination based on deceleration rates, but somehow Tesla has avoided the brake lights doing that. Maybe their 1PD doesn't brake quite as hard immediately upon lifting the accelerator pedal? It would be nice if Ford would fix this, as the current situation essentially results in the 1PD driver constantly crying wolf, and the following drivers losing attention on the braking of the MME in front. Not a great situation for safety.

I'm now like 99.7% certain I was one of the two MMEs you were behind. ??

 

[sukhoi_584th]

How are you sure they were driving in 1PD?

I can't be but it was flashing at a frequency far higher than one basically ever sees from ICE vehicles so I doubt it was two-foot driving. But it could be.

From my recollection when test driving a Tesla.....
When lifting off the accelerator, the regen is immediate and near maximum.

In the Mach-E, there is a delay. Presumably so the driver can reposition themselves for comfort during extended drives. Or perhaps to limit the excessive regen that can occur unintentionally. It might be possible those drivers were trying to find a way to get comfortable and they were trying different foot positions? Just guessing

I know when I try and use 1PD in the Mach-E, my foot and leg get fatigued after only 10 or 15 miles so I end up turning it off. I can and do use 1PD in other EVs though. I don't have that same issue with any other car (so far that is....)

Interesting. I have not driven a Tesla, and my sole MME drive was not in 1PD mode. The two instances I witnessed went on for 5-10 minutes of ~75 mph cruising so I doubt it was the driver getting comfortable. They did happen to be on the same stretch of road, but were different color MMEs.

I work in IT and support users on a daily basis… That is why.

Well yes customers are generally morons, but a good design deals with that and stops the morons from doing things you don't want them to do. Training the morons doesn't work well.

 

[ctenidae]

I wouldn't be surprised if the code needs some adjusting - it takes a lot of data to surface and then fix something like this - make it too sensitive and it flashes all the time, set the mark too high and you have a ton of rear-end litigation on your hands. I'd guess the lawyers put some pressure on the engineers. Heck, Tesla went through at least 3 different iterations of it in the 30 months I had one.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the driver was new to 1P driving. The only thing at all similar is 3P driving, and there aren't anywhere near enough people who can do that (I theorize that brake lights from automatic transmission drivers is a major contributing factor to traffic jams), so everyone, at some point, is new to 1P driving.

Combine a new 1P driver with a too-low sensitivity, and you're very likely to get the annoying flashy brake light thing.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

In my experience the Tesla 1pd brake light triggering threshold is too high. I’ve been behind numerous 3s and Ys where the braking G was clearly past the point where brake lights should have been activated and yet, no brake lights. Not good. Strangely, I don’t recall this when behind a Model S or X, which are also literally everywhere here in the greater Austin area.

I’ve also performed the unscientific test of driving our 4X on an empty road at night while watching the rear view mirrors for brake light activation as I let up on the accelerator with varied quickness. In every instance the brake lights came on when I would have wanted them to. I think the MME brake light/1pd programming is just fine.

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