The only thing Tesla has over Mach-E

[Kamuelaflyer]

People joke about the name "autopilot" but have you used any autopilot systems, i.e planes and boats? They don't do very much

i don't see how tesla's name is very misleading

Yes.

Really ? I thought planes were able to land without any human intervention... Looks pretty cool to me.

They can — at least from first generation glass cockpits on (We’re on gen 3 now and about to enter gen 4). Sort of like how cruise control has evolved since its introduction.

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[tobiasjef]

Yes.

They can — at least from first generation glass cockpits on (We’re on gen 3 now and about to enter gen 4). Sort of like how cruise control has evolved since its introduction.

cruise control on boats steers the ship into a heading but it is very primitive at best.

Landing on planes is a different autoland product. In 100% of those pictures above they would not be using autoland and you or anyone you know has likely never experienced an auto landing. There are very specific regulations around its use and it is only in low visibility.

It's also worth mentioning that these "autopilot" products do not just work without extensive work put in by others to insure that they can even be used.

For example, you could not just land a plane without the work of air traffic control. So by comparison these systems are all quite primitive in how they operate.

 

[tobiasjef]

Don't they have an extremely high accident rate and high insurance? Clearly the systems are not that safe when in actual use. The fact that in a lab they are some of the safest tested but when in actual use are some of the most dangerous shows clear design flaws. And they don't release data on if FSD was in use just before an accident, so not sure I would trust their numbers.

Everything you just said was ignorant.

Firstly, tesla releases FSD data as long if it was within a certain period after it disengaged. So it's not that it's completely untrustworthy.

And the whole thing about teslas having the highest fatal accident rate comes from the fact that some company looked at used teslas and estimated the number of miles that teslas have driven. This is a misleading stat because the ones who are driving teslas and putting on high miles are not selling. For example there are teslas with over 1 million miles, but those would not be counted.


Tesla probably does not correct those numbers because their own internal data would not show tesla being the safest vehicle which leads them to not correct those reports.

 

[tobiasjef]

Really ? I thought planes were able to land without any human intervention... Looks pretty cool to me.

human intervention no, because you have to setup the autopilot to land (it's called autoland anyways) and then it also requires the work of others to make sure that the airspace is clear.

It would be like any car driving in a preprogrammed line but only if the path the car wants to take is clear. How stupid does that sound?


It's worth mentioning that 90% of aircraft are general aviation and those autopilot systems do not even have autoland capability

With boats, the autopilot can keep the boat going in one heading to hit a specific gps coordinate but that is it. There is no avoidance of other boats based on the GPS.

 

[MacherAWD]

Everything you just said was ignorant.

Firstly, tesla releases FSD data as long if it was within a certain period after it disengaged. So it's not that it's completely untrustworthy.

And the whole thing about teslas having the highest fatal accident rate comes from the fact that some company looked at used teslas and estimated the number of miles that teslas have driven. This is a misleading stat because the ones who are driving teslas and putting on high miles are not selling. For example there are teslas with over 1 million miles, but those would not be counted.


Tesla probably does not correct those numbers because their own internal data would not show tesla being the safest vehicle which leads them to not correct those reports.

So if I just trust blindly everything Tesla says, and only Tesla than it all makes sense, got it.

 

[tobiasjef]

So if I just trust blindly everything Tesla says, and only Tesla than it all makes sense, got it.

No. Because nothing I said came from tesla.

There are NHTSA reports.

you can see for yourself. There have been 2 deaths with very early versions of FSD. Over 3 billion miles. That's not high. Usually you see 3 deaths every billion miles

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

you could not just land a plane without the work of air traffic control. So by comparison these systems are all quite primitive in how they operate

Of course you can. That’s what arrival procedures are for. Now, whether that’s a good idea or whether you’d still have a license afterward are altogether different questions.

The point was that the use of the terms Full Self Drive and, to a lesser extent, Autopilot are misleading or even deceptive. As to the former, very definitely so, as for the latter yes as well, but not nearly to the same degree. Most folks don’t have the knowledge that you have regarding autopilots and wing levelers vs full 3 axis, flight management system integrated modern wonders. For the vast majority “Full Self Drive” means exactly that and autopilot conjures up highly automated flying (or driving in this case). They really should have picked other names for their trade names.

Just my opinion, I’ve been known to be wrong.

 

[tobiasjef]

Of course you can. That’s what arrival procedures are for. Now, whether that’s a good idea or whether you’d still have a license afterward are altogether different questions.

The point was that the use of the terms Full Self Drive and, to a lesser extent, Autopilot are misleading or even deceptive. As to the former, very definitely so, as for the latter yes as well, but not nearly to the same degree. Most folks don’t have the knowledge that you have regarding autopilots and wing levelers vs full 3 axis, flight management system integrated modern wonders. For the vast majority “Full Self Drive” means exactly that and autopilot conjures up highly automated flying (or driving in this case). They really should have picked other names for their trade names.

Just my opinion, I’ve been known to be wrong.

I'm not sure anybody believed autopilot in planes was making planes fly themselves? I don't have much knowledge about planes and I knew these things

What do you name a product that you can push a button, the car leaves your garage, auto opens and closes the garage door, drives to your destination without pressing the wheel or pedals and then parks itself?

 

[MacherAWD]

No. Because nothing I said came from tesla.

There are NHTSA reports.

you can see for yourself. There have been 2 deaths with very early versions of FSD. Over 3 billion miles. That's not high. Usually you see 3 deaths every billion miles

Tesla has been in trouble for not reporting accident data to the gov and was under investigation. And sure that stat sounds great about minimal accidents, but if FSD bails out just before an accident with "resume control" then yeah fsd sounds great but then why do they crash so much? Likely Tesla is skewing the stats to sound better.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I'm not sure anybody believed autopilot in planes was making planes fly themselves? I don't have much knowledge about planes and I knew these things

What do you name a product that you can push a button, the car leaves your garage, auto opens and closes the garage door, drives to your destination without pressing the wheel or pedals and then parks itself?

Well off subject but in gen-2 glass aircraft (B-777-200 and. MD-11 types), if you have the entire flight plan plugged in ( normal), and you’re on a departure with navigation routing, and you have an arrival that takes you to an approach fix, and there’s a instrument landing system approach to the runway, you could theoretically turn the autopilot on at 800 feet and it’d stop you on the runway at destination.

Problems:

1. That’s not how things work irl.
2. All those “ands”
3. It won’t taxi after landing, it’ll just sit there engines running on the runway.
4. The US Marshall service, the FBI and FAA will be waiting for you upon landing. Two of those three are armed and dangerous and they shoot.

All off topic of course. All an unfortunate use of terminology and regardless the driver is responsible even if mislead about capabilities or what doesn’t cause the car to stop for the fire truck ? in the road.

 

[tobiasjef]

Tesla has been in trouble for not reporting accident data to the gov and was under investigation. And sure that stat sounds great about minimal accidents, but if FSD bails out just before an accident with "resume control" then yeah fsd sounds great but then why do they crash so much? Likely Tesla is skewing the stats to sound better.

Does FSD crash a lot? You claim it does with no evidence. FSD is not autopilot.

not counting autopilot because FSD is a hands free software that can make a more errant decision on its own

 

[Mach1E]

Incorrect. Tesla has had an interior camera for driver monitoring for years. They never used it because autopilot is not hands free and FSD was pushing the limits of what was being done in a car.

Tesla was abusing a loophole to claim their system is level 2 when it is not. Tesla has been testing a level 4 system but in order to make it appear that you are more than a safety driver, they have required hands on the wheel.

That's why tesla was also very slow to release "old" features like actually smart summon. Tesla has also had every element of self driving (starting from park, auto parking, summon, banish, etc.) since 2023 but they have never connected those features into a hands free, parking lot to parking lot driving experience.

Now in 2025 you can finally use FSD in a way in which you can go without touching the steering wheel and pedals for a year.

In fact tesla has the strictest driver monitoring of any system. You can't crawl in the backseat because new cars have in-cabin radar which can detect humans in the front seat.

You sure?

It may be different based on models, but from what I read 2021 is when they started doing driver monitoring and it’s also the same year they added cameras to all the models.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/when-was-the-cabin-camera-added-to-model-x.309400/

 

[tobiasjef]

You sure?

It may be different based on models, but from what I read 2021 is when they started doing driver monitoring and it’s also the same year they added cameras to all the models.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/when-was-the-cabin-camera-added-to-model-x.309400/

cabin camera was in model 3 from day 1. Which is back in 2018. Same with model Y

Model S/X got it during the refresh

 

[Mach1E]

cabin camera was in model 3 from day 1. Which is back in 2018. Same with model Y

Model S/X got it during the refresh

So in other words, they didn’t have hands free because they didn’t have driver monitoring.

And as a bonus, they didn’t add it until they were forced to and it’s STILL easy to trick.

Tesla has a bad history of pushing the limits of safety until regulation pushes back.

Worst part? You can trick it just by putting sunglasses on and using the same stupid steering weights people have used for years-


Their monitoring system sucks if you can’t wear sunglasses

 

[MacherAWD]

Does FSD crash a lot? You claim it does with no evidence. FSD is not autopilot.

not counting autopilot because FSD is a hands free software that can make a more errant decision on its own

I don't know for sure and neither do you, that's the point. What we do know is Musk lies continually and that the cars have some of the highest accident rates in the world and that the company does not comply with reporting.

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