TIM Tubes and Body Frame Bolts

[jojomontag]

My Mach E has been at the dealer since 8/13. Ford engineers came out and confirmed that two battery modules are bad. The dealership says the modules have come in, but they are waiting on other parts.

I asked what they were and why are they needed. The service manager said that he cannot tell me "every nut and bolt" needed. I objected and said that if something on the car needs to be replaced, I need to know. I then asked if the items needed are so many that it would be too long of a list to send me.

He replied:
"We are waiting on 10 Tim Tubes part# TA-38
2 Frame Bolts part# w717859s439
There are no other failed parts other then the aaray"

Why would they need to replace 10 TIM Tubes and two frame bolts? Especially if they never mentioned any issue with them. All he ever told me was that two battery modules are bad. I can only assume two things:

1. They damaged them when removing the HV battery.

2. They are trying to add to their on-hand stock and get Ford to pay for them under the warranty service.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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[RonTCat]

My Mach E has been at the dealer since 8/13. Ford engineers came out and confirmed that two battery modules are bad. The dealership says the modules have come in, but they are waiting on other parts.

I asked what they were and why are they needed. The service manager said that he cannot tell me "every nut and bolt" needed. I objected and said that if something on the car needs to be replaced, I need to know. I then asked if the items needed are so many that it would be too long of a list to send me.

He replied:
"We are waiting on 10 Tim Tubes part# TA-38
2 Frame Bolts part# w717859s439
There are no other failed parts other then the aaray"

Why would they need to replace 10 TIM Tubes and two frame bolts? Especially if they never mentioned any issue with them. All he ever told me was that two battery modules are bad. I can only assume two things:

1. They damaged them when removing the HV battery.

2. They are trying to add to their on-hand stock and get Ford to pay for them under the warranty service.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Bad assumptions. Unfortunately, your conclusions are proving the dealers normal process of not saying anything is the best path for them, lol.

All dealers are not evil. And yes, believe it or not, I have no associations with dealerships.


OK, some info to help you out, when even the Google will fail you:
TIM = Thermal interface Material. Comes in a tube, think caulk. 10 tubes is prolly a safe quantity. Goop to help cool the battery cells, like the thermal paste on a CPU. When they replace the array, they will have to reapply TIM, as most of it will likely still be stuck to the old part. This is perfectly normal, and in fact, would be sloppy work if they didn't. I figure you don't want the dealer to intentionally do a bad job, so they better have new TIM. I would demand new TIM if it were my vehicle, BTW.

Frame bolts... sometimes bolts are "prevailing torque", or have thread lock material, etc. They are one time use, and have to be replaced if removed. Normal, good practice. Again, my vehicle, I insist on new bolts.

 

[Benny’66]

I’m guessing, but if you watch the video of Munro removing the Mach E battery pack, you will see all of the fasteners that hold it in. It is possible that they are single use fasteners for safety reasons. I know it’s hard to believe, but having been an engineer in automotive for 15 years, I can tell you that many fasteners are designed to be single use due to clamp load and stretch. We never reused any fasteners at the factory and all fasteners were installed with Atlas Copco or Ingersoll Rand electric nutrunners which monitored running/finished torque and angle very accurately. Back then single spindle units were $8k-$12k each, so a lot of money was spent to ensure critical fasteners were installed perfectly. It cracks me up when people remove a bolt that was torqued to 75 or 80 ft-lbs and then just run it back in with an impact tool thinking that fastener will still do it’s job. Maybe, maybe not once it’s been stretched.
It’s been a while since I watched the Munro video to remember if these fasteners had a patch on them either (which also affects reuse), but the quantities you mentioned sound like the same amounts they removed.
So, this may be what they are waiting on. And if so, new fasteners are worth the wait.

 

[jojomontag]

Bad assumptions. Unfortunately, your conclusions are proving the dealers normal process of not saying anything is the best path for them, lol.

All dealers are not evil. And yes, believe it or not, I have no associations with dealerships.


OK, some info to help you out, when even the Google will fail you:
TIM = Thermal interface Material. Comes in a tube, think caulk. 10 tubes is prolly a safe quantity. Goop to help cool the battery cells, like the thermal paste on a CPU. When they replace the array, they will have to reapply TIM, as most of it will likely still be stuck to the old part. This is perfectly normal, and in fact, would be sloppy work if they didn't. I figure you don't want the dealer to intentionally do a bad job, so they better have new TIM. I would demand new TIM if it were my vehicle, BTW.

Frame bolts... sometimes bolts are "prevailing torque", or have thread lock material, etc. They are one time use, and have to be replaced if removed. Normal, good practice. Again, my vehicle, I insist on new bolts.

Thank you! Trying to get an answer out of the service manager is like pulling teeth.

This is much more reassuring (and good to know for the future).

That TIM tube is expensive!

 

[Benny’66]

Bad assumptions. Unfortunately, your conclusions are proving the dealers normal process of not saying anything is the best path for them, lol.

All dealers are not evil. And yes, believe it or not, I have no associations with dealerships.


OK, some info to help you out, when even the Google will fail you:
TIM = Thermal interface Material. Comes in a tube, think caulk. 10 tubes is prolly a safe quantity. Goop to help cool the battery cells, like the thermal paste on a CPU. When they replace the array, they will have to reapply TIM, as most of it will likely still be stuck to the old part. This is perfectly normal, and in fact, would be sloppy work if they didn't. I figure you don't want the dealer to intentionally do a bad job, so they better have new TIM. I would demand new TIM if it were my vehicle, BTW.

Frame bolts... sometimes bolts are "prevailing torque", or have thread lock material, etc. They are one time use, and have to be replaced if removed. Normal, good practice. Again, my vehicle, I insist on new bolts.

Beat me to it. I missed the TIM part. Assumed these were more fasteners. Ha ha.

 

[one5460]

Bad assumptions. Unfortunately, your conclusions are proving the dealers normal process of not saying anything is the best path for them, lol.

If the manager had taken another 30 seconds to explain to the OP what the parts were for, this thread would not have been made. That's all part of good customer service.

 

[RonTCat]

If the manager had taken another 30 seconds to explain to the OP what the parts were for, this thread would not have been made. That's all part of good customer service.

You are assuming the manager knows what "TIM" is, lol... that might be a stretch. I can bet he had never heard of it, or has ever seen what it actually is.

 

[jojomontag]

You are assuming the manager knows what "TIM" is, lol... that might be a stretch. I can bet he had never heard of it, or has ever seen what it actually is.

Very true... I think much of the push back and attitude he has been giving me stems from his lack of knowledge. Every time I ask a question means he has to go find the answer. His fault, though. He should be learning, too, instead of just blowing smoke.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Very true... I think much of the push back and attitude he has been giving me stems from his lack of knowledge. Every time I ask a question means he has to go find the answer. His fault, though. He should be learning, too, instead of just blowing smoke.

I suppose it depends on the dealer, but my experience with various ones here is that the service advisors, aka service writers, stay quite busy fielding phone calls, submitting warranty claims, and doing small bits of paperwork. Unless they're personally interested in continuously learning on their own time, they aren't going to learn what mechanics do. It's not their job function.

My frustration is that it's generally not possible to talk with the technicians doing the hands on work... The service advisor is the intermediary and I think they work hard to explain as little as possible.

A benefit of independent mechanics is that you can often talk with them and walk around/under the vehicle with them. After our cars are outside of the warranty period, it'll be interesting to see if nearby independent mechanics have been accumulating the tools and know how needed to properly service electric powertrains and HV systems.

 

[one5460]

You are assuming the manager knows what "TIM" is, lol... that might be a stretch. I can bet he had never heard of it, or has ever seen what it actually is.

Sad but true. The dealers I've dealt with in the past did have knowledgeable service managers, but I guess we can't expect the same level of competence at every dealer.

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