Time of Use

[Crafty42]

Tried searching the forums for talk about it, but didn't find much. Wondering how many out there may have switched to a Time of Use (TOU) electric plan and what the results were. According to what I see from my supplier, I'll pay 1.8632 x the rate 2pm to 6pm M-F, 0.5749 x rate from 11pm to 6am Everyday, and 0.7821 x rate all other times. Seems reasonable with only 4 hours of a higher rate during the week while the rest of the time will be lower rates.

I was going to wait for my first bill, but truly I'd have to wait another month for a full bill of charging to then compare to a TOU price when I switch.

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[GERChris]

Holy smokes! What's your provider? I just switched from PPL to Energy Harbor.

Got a $0.09 /KwH deal compared to over 0.11 @ PPL.

Still have to see if they have 'Night Rates'


https://energyharbor.com/en

 

[Larry Paul]

Tried searching the forums for talk about it, but didn't find much. Wondering how many out there may have switched to a Time of Use (TOU) electric plan and what the results were. According to what I see from my supplier, I'll pay 1.8632 x the rate 2pm to 6pm M-F, 0.5749 x rate from 11pm to 6am Everyday, and 0.7821 x rate all other times. Seems reasonable with only 4 hours of a higher rate during the week while the rest of the time will be lower rates.

I was going to wait for my first bill, but truly I'd have to wait another month for a full bill of charging to then compare to a TOU price when I switch.

I have been on a whole house TOU plan since January 1999 when I started driving an EV. Every location has different rules regarding incentives. Some customers find a whole house TOU works best or installing dual meters work best with only the EV(s) on the second meter).

I think the best course of action is to speak with your power supplier.

 

[Crafty42]

Holy smokes! What's your provider? I just switched from PPL to Energy Harbor.

https://energyharbor.com/en

West Penn Power of firstenergy. My rate is around $0.09, plus all the distribution, supply, etc. I assume the only break I get is 0.5749 x 0.09 during super off peak hours. The numbers I gave are just multipliers times the actual rate.

https://www.firstenergycorp.com/help/pa-time-of-use-pricing.html

I have been on a whole house TOU plan since January 1999 when I started driving an EV. Every location has different rules regarding incentives. Some customers find a whole house TOU works best or installing dual meters work best with only the EV(s) on the second meter).

I think the best course of action is to speak with your power supplier.

I realize everyone's rules are different, which is why I have my elec co rules. I wouldn't trust them to know or give me the right.

 

[dtbaker61]

Tried searching the forums for talk about it, but didn't find much. Wondering how many out there may have switched to a Time of Use (TOU) electric plan and what the results were. According to what I see from my supplier, I'll pay 1.8632 x the rate 2pm to 6pm M-F, 0.5749 x rate from 11pm to 6am Everyday, and 0.7821 x rate all other times. Seems reasonable with only 4 hours of a higher rate during the week while the rest of the time will be lower rates.

I was going to wait for my first bill, but truly I'd have to wait another month for a full bill of charging to then compare to a TOU price when I switch.

just keep in mind that TOU rates will likely change over the next 2-10 years.... I would expect a flip-flop with 'cheap power' between 10a-3p when there is Solar Surplus. afternoon/evening power will be the most expensive, and late night will still be high if it is coming from a Utility ESS.

Planning on charging during the DAY, or installing a decent size battery in your home for a daily charge at night will be the key to holding costs down in the future.

i.e. if your daily commute is 50 miles/day.... you'd need a 20kWhr battery and a 10kW inverter/charger in your garage to avoid paying high retail rate. The idea is you program the inverter-charger to fill during the cheapest time, whether you have solar or not, so you can charge your EV whenever you want.

...it doesn't have to be a Tesla Powerwall.... There are lots of options these days.

 

[Crafty42]

just keep in mind that TOU rates will likely change over the next 2-10 years.... I would expect a flip-flop with 'cheap power' between 10a-3p when there is Solar Surplus. afternoon/evening power will be the most expensive, and late night will still be high if it is coming from a Utility ESS.
...

...it doesn't have to be a Tesla Powerwall.... There are lots of options these days.

Interesting thought if true that peak times will be during the day. Hard to believe it will be true especially out here in the NE where we don't see as much sun as others. That and hot areas use a lot of energy running AC during the day.

I have a 2Kwh system. It isn't much, but I was already thinking I can charge it during the night and use it to run my window AC unit during those 2pm-6pm peak hours.

 

[dtbaker61]

Interesting thought if true that peak times will be during the day. Hard to believe it will be true especially out here in the NE where we don't see as much sun as others. That and hot areas use a lot of energy running AC during the day.

I have a 2Kwh system. It isn't much, but I was already thinking I can charge it during the night and use it to run my window AC unit during those 2pm-6pm peak hours.

rate pricing is all about supply and demand....

peak demand for household use is 3p-9p , that won't change...

typical solar surplus supply time is 10a-3p , when production exceeds demand on a typical grid-tied install. Currently, the surplus goes out to nearby demand on the grid to somebody that does not have solar in areas where there is less than about 30% solar market penetration.

in your case, mid-day your home is ticking along using 100-300 watts during the day, and your 2kW solar might be producing 1500 watts or more between 10a-3p. That goes out to the grid, and serves the nearest load. If ALL your neighbors have solar, than the Utility MUST invest in batteries somewhere on the distribution side of the Grid.

In the near future, with wind/solar, there will HAVE to be batteries or mechanical storage (like pumping water up to a higher reservoir) to store surplus energy to serve evening and nightime demand. This may be Utility-side, or in your garage. If you buy grid power at night in the future you'll be paying a premium because of the cost of batteries.

 

[RickMachE]

Very power company-specific.

We could have gone to a separate meter with an EV rate. The additional discount, as compared to a whole house time of use rate, isn't worth the monthly meter cost.

We evaluated this years back when we were ordering a PHEV and realized we would save money without having an EV, so we switched immediately.

Our peak is 11AM - 7PM Mon - Fri, all other hours are off-peak. Before getting a PHEV, we "lost money" say a dozen or less times a year due to AC running. So, by adding a PHEV, and then an EV, and now 2 EVs, we save money.

I look at our cost monthly, and our off-peak usage hovers around 80% most months, depending very much on how much we use the EVs (more usage, more off-peak percent of total).

Our off-peak loaded cost, excluding the $8.5 flat fee (which I don't allocate to the EVs), is right now 15.5 cents. Peak cost is 22.2 cents. Off-peak loaded with monthly fee prorated is 16 cents.

 

[azerik]

Sometimes the EV specific plans backfire. My company gave a 1 cent and hour discount from 11 to 5. I used that for years, never looked at my bill. Wife got a call one day from them and changed to just a normal TOU. Saved $15 to $50 a month or so. Why? Because I was paying more in the summer to run my pool/ac in the ‘off peak’ but not ‘off EV peak’, about 2.5 cents more a kWH than I realized.

 

[macchiaz-o]

I'm definitely saving money on my power by using the EV TOU plan that they offer. In my area the lowest rates on this plan are from 11pm to 5am which works out great for my refueling needs.

If you've been driving electric at least a year, check your utility account or call them... Mine knows exactly how much I'd pay on each rate plan given my actual usage from the last year or two, so it's fairly easy to decide to change plans once you know historical comparisons.

 

[dtbaker61]

Interesting thought if true that peak times will be during the day. Hard to believe it will be true especially out here in the NE where we don't see as much sun as others. That and hot areas use a lot of energy running AC during the day.

I have a 2Kwh system. It isn't much, but I was already thinking I can charge it during the night and use it to run my window AC unit during those 2pm-6pm peak hours.

.... I just realized you were talking about a 2kwhr battery, not a 2kw solar system,

regardless, that's too small to run much for very long, and certainly not enough to handle a daily charge for your EV.

You'll want a cabinet with 15-20 kWhr of battery, and a 10kw inverter/charger similar to this:

 

[Crafty42]

.... I just realized you were talking about a 2kwhr battery, not a 2kw solar system,

regardless, that's too small to run much for very long, and certainly not enough to handle a daily charge for your EV.

You'll want a cabinet with 15-20 kWhr of battery, and a 10kw inverter/charger similar to this:

Yeah. I knew you mixed that up. I think the 2kwh battery will be able to handle my window AC unit set at a higher temp during the week while I’m not home. Gonna give it a try.

 

[dtbaker61]

Yeah. I knew you mixed that up. I think the 2kwh battery will be able to handle my window AC unit set at a higher temp during the week while I’m not home. Gonna give it a try.

most window AC units draw 500-900 watts, so you won't get much run-time on a 2kWhr portable battery. Also, depending on the size inverter, it may not be able to handle the inductive startup load unless the AC unit has a really good soft-start built in.

you'd be MUCH better off with some of the newer mini-splits that are designed with soft-start and can run direct on 1kW of solar and/or 120v-AC.
https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-hybrid-ac-dc-solar-air-conditioner-1-ton/

 

[Crafty42]

I ran the ac off the battery pack once before. Maybe it was on low but it wasn’t drawing as much as I would have thought. I really only need to cool the room from 4-6 once I get home. I’m not looking to upgrade my system as I’m working on building a new house.

The battery pack has a 4400 startup watt. I’ve run my house jet pump off it before.

 

[Vulnox]

We use ToU and it's most expensive from 11am-7pm M-F, and then 7PM - 11AM M-F, and all day Weekends, it's the lower rate. Pretty sure I have the same provider as Rich.

We have solar though, which makes it tougher to say what the EV is costing us all-in. The nice thing about ToU is we produce power during the most expensive period of ToU, and our provider (DTE) gives you solar credit in the form of the dollar amount of the non distribution portion of the electric cost. It just goes in a bucket. The nice thing is that bucket isn't just for On peak or off peak, it just takes out of the bucket whatever you owe for that bill on the actual electric cost.

So we overproduce during the most expensive time, charge during the least expensive, and if we ever have a month where we don't produce more than we consume, it comes out of the bucket.

Unfortunately, DTE and Consumers Energy kneecapped true net metering, and you have to pay the "Delivery" cost of electricity no matter what, and don't get a credit for it when you send back to the grid. So we still get a bill each month, it's just a very low one.

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