Turns out I don't know everything - Charging

[Old_Norm]

As you are all aware, there are other DC fast charging stations around not just Tesla. Use EA all/most of the time.
Just seem to me everyone has the opinion that its Tesla charging or none. JMHO

I was happy when Tesla chargers became available for the MME because I figured it would free up the other Brands.

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[Jeff-NoVA]

Lol.

If Tesla made any profit from the Supercharging business, you'd see it reported in the 10-K and hear Lord Elon bragging about it. Their are margins on the kWh charges but the capital costs are immense compared to the miniscule revenues.

It's like $1.50 hotdogs at Costco. There might be some margin on them but that's not why Costco has them.

Thank you, this is correct. Superchargers are a feature that sell more cars for Tesla, not a center of any significant profit. Electrify America, EVGO, etc barely stay afloat and EA at least has a heck of a time keeping their equipment functioning. There's no reason to think the economics work any different for Tesla. Opening them up to all makes is a requirement of receiving NEVI funds, and Tesla has not been one to turn away government largesse. After all, selling EV credits to other carmakers is a massive part of Tesla's business ($1.79 billion in 2023).

 

[Scarpia]

Electrify America, EVGO, etc barely stay afloat and EA at least has a heck of a time keeping their equipment functioning. There's no reason to think the economics work any different for Tesla.

Yes, there is. There are many, many, many more Teslas on the road than other EVs and Tesla has many more Supercharging stations than any other network. At least anecdotally, the Superchargers I see have MUCH more traffic than EVGO, Electrify America, etc., so there certainly is reason to suspect Tesla's network has more revenue than the others. EA may have trouble with maintaining their chargers, but by all accounts, Tesla's are apparently almost bulletproof.
How the investment in the network balances with the revenue is unknown to me, but comparing Tesla to the other charging networks is not apples to apples.

 

[Jeff-NoVA]

Yes, there is. There are many, many, many more Teslas on the road than other EVs and Tesla has many more Supercharging stations than any other network. At least anecdotally, the Superchargers I see have MUCH more traffic than EVGO, Electrify America, etc., so there certainly is reason to suspect Tesla's network has more revenue than the others. EA may have trouble with maintaining their chargers, but by all accounts, Tesla's are apparently almost bulletproof.
How the investment in the network balances with the revenue is unknown to me, but comparing Tesla to the other charging networks is not apples to apples.

That’s just anecdotal evidence. Just like on a recent road trip I noticed that the EA chargers on my route were all busy and there was plenty of availability at supercharging stations. But, that’s just my experience on a single trip. That does not represent statistical data.

I’m not saying Tesla doesn’t make money from superchargers. In fact, on a revenue basis they make quite a lot of money. But that’s revenue, not net profit. They have to pay to lease land, they have to pay to maintain the equipment, and they have to pay for electricity. Regardless, my point is that additional revenue is not the primary motivation for them to open up the network.

 

[bbulkow]

Thank you, this is correct. Superchargers are a feature that sell more cars for Tesla, not a center of any significant profit. Electrify America, EVGO, etc barely stay afloat and EA at least has a heck of a time keeping their equipment functioning. There's no reason to think the economics work any different for Tesla. Opening them up to all makes is a requirement of receiving NEVI funds, and Tesla has not been one to turn away government largesse. After all, selling EV credits to other carmakers is a massive part of Tesla's business ($1.79 billion in 2023).

I do think it's possible Tesla has a significantly different model than EA and EVGo (etc) that is far more stable and profitable.

By manufacturing simpler stalls without payment equipment, they built far larger stations (more stalls per station by .... 5x? ..... ) they may have significantly "bent the curve".

The *potential* benefits of their model:
* better traffic models because they are the first choice of the largest EV brand, more expected traffic, and they know where the chargers will be used (they have tesla driving / charging data) - thus gain first mover advantage

* in-house charger equipment instead of outside sourced chargers allow optimization for long-term goals (working chargers), and fewer models to maintain

* closed ecosystem (tesla equipment and tesla cars) means less engineering (until 2022-ish when they released MagicDock) - eg, less cable copper through v3 - let alone no credit card equipment -

* cheaper stall equipment means larger sites means construction and siting costs less as a percentage - and better user experience (I always look for > 8 stalls, <= 2 is a risk)

Once you're the market leader with a superior product, and there's a significant "moat" (permits and electrical capacity limits), Supercharger might be sitting on a gold mine for decades to come. Which also becomes a fact you try to obscure in the annual report....

Or maybe not

 

[Scarpia]

That’s just anecdotal evidence. Just like on a recent road trip I noticed that the EA chargers on my route were all busy and there was plenty of availability at supercharging stations. But, that’s just my experience on a single trip. That does not represent statistical data.

I’m not saying Tesla doesn’t make money from superchargers. In fact, on a revenue basis they make quite a lot of money. But that’s revenue, not net profit. They have to pay to lease land, they have to pay to maintain the equipment, and they have to pay for electricity. Regardless, my point is that additional revenue is not the primary motivation for them to open up the network.

I don't disagree with any of that. My response was simply to the statement "There's no reason to think the economics work any different for Tesla", because there ARE reasons to think the economics are different.

 

[Snakebitten]

Didn't I see where some Tesla charge stations have massive battery banks tucked behind the scene, allowing Tesla to purchase grid electrons at off peak and bulk pricing, and then selling those electrons at DCFC retail rate?
Admittedly I haven't seen the battery bank enclosures at the few locations that I have charged.

 

[zvez]

Lol.

If Tesla made any profit from the Supercharging business, you'd see it reported in the 10-K and hear Lord Elon bragging about it. Their are margins on the kWh charges but the capital costs are immense compared to the miniscule revenues.

It's like $1.50 hotdogs at Costco. There might be some margin on them but that's not why Costco has them.

I assumed he's opened the network to other manufacturers to get govt. grants. etc.

 

[Snakebitten]

Love him or hate him, he does things that benefit me.
His decisions, I'd argue, led to there even being a Mach-E, and thus the existence of this forum, and this thread to afford the smack.

The irony makes me grin. The GTPE makes me giggle. Plugging the L2 into the charge port every few days at ~13¢ for 3+ miles? Brilliant!

 

[Stanmckinney]

My Ford adapter has been shipped. Where can I use it? I plead with ignorance. Any stations I can use in Kentucky?

 

[AZBill]

Didn't I see where some Tesla charge stations have massive battery banks tucked behind the scene, allowing Tesla to purchase grid electrons at off peak and bulk pricing, and then selling those electrons at DCFC retail rate?
Admittedly I haven't seen the battery bank enclosures at the few locations that I have charged.

EA also does this, in fact they use Tesla batteries.

 

[Space_Pony]

My Ford adapter has been shipped. Where can I use it? I plead with ignorance. Any stations I can use in Kentucky?

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bo...y,self serve demo drive,nacs,delivery centers

 

[Stanmckinney]

Which of the chargers with the Ford adapter?

 

[Tampamike]

Which of the chargers with the Ford adapter?

Stan, it’s for the Tesla Super Charger network. Get the Tesla app. Look through the settings and set it up for use with a NACS adapter. Then do some homework.

 

[Stanmckinney]

Thanks

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