Turtle Mode (Cold Weather Warning)

[dtbaker61]

I experienced this over the weekend in -27C (-17F).

Usually we plan carefully and precondition and even charge to 100% for long trips rather than just 90%......but a family emergency made us take off with limited preheat and only 85% charge on a long highway commute. within 45km of a 50kw DC charger we dropped below 30% and got the amber turtle...followed by the red turtle at 25% at which point the car took over and for every 30 seconds of driving it seemed to drop by 1km/h in speed until I was doing 50km/h and on a highway.....made it to the charger with 7%SOC and charged to 70% and then booted home no problem at 100km/h...

I wasn't expecting the performance and speed reduction at that SOC. I could see acceleration being cut...the speed being cut was an unsettling surprise. (though I understand the methodology behind the forced restrictions)

From what others have posted....is this new behavior to aggressively control speed and acceleration at 30%SOC (rather than lower than that) in the cold or has it always been this way? I was surprised because I had seen so many people brag about getting down to 10% or less and never mentioning their speed getting so badly clipped. But they might be in nice warm climates too...

Curious what others can speak to for common cold weather operation (this is my first winter with mine).

Burning question for me: has anyone been highway driving with a high SOC like above 50-60% in extreme cold (-37c to -45c) and had the heater not keep up and end up with their speed clipped due to cold battery? I have heard these heaters have trouble keeping up when you combine highway speeds and extreme cold.

yikes

I got no turtles ever....

my last trip was in blowing snow, ambient temp around +20F, batt down to 7% on one leg, highway driving, but speeds were limited to 30-45mph because of visibility. return trip roads were clear, temp was +20F, speed was 70-80mph, battery down to 5% on last leg, no turtles.

but I am still running powerup 4.2.4

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[Monke]

Yes I agree, it can become a bit of a potential safety issue. luckily the reduction happens after warnings and the reduction is very gradual...but a very unsettling feeling for sure.

I wanted to go shopping today and to try our Mach E in a colder weather in TX. My wife did not want to go. She said if we were going, we would not take a Mach E. She is no longer trust out Mach E. We only use it for daily commute. What a waste of money!

 

[dtbaker61]

Yes I agree, it can become a bit of a potential safety issue. luckily the reduction happens after warnings and the reduction is very gradual...but a very unsettling feeling for sure.

this would have been a HUGE safety issue if it happened to me on my last trip. I had an 80 mile stretch with NO chargers, and was going to be well below 30%. If I'd been turtled at night in the snow on that stretch.... huge delay and/or very serious consequences!

this is smelling like it should be reported to NHTSA

we need to know a lot more about the conditions causing turtles. i.e. is it below 20F, 0F, -10F or what ?

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

yikes

I got no turtles ever....

my last trip was in blowing snow, ambient temp around +20F, batt down to 7% on one leg, highway driving, but speeds were limited to 30-45mph because of visibility. return trip roads were clear, temp was +20F, speed was 70-80mph, battery down to 5% on last leg, no turtles.

but I am still running powerup 4.2.4

I'm guessing either an update changed something, or there's a sliding scale for ambient temperature vs SOC and when the system stops battery heating. I was in a lot colder temps then you describe which could in part account for the different experience. But you're right...maybe your software version plays a role in this and your better experience too.

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

this would have been a HUGE safety issue if it happened to me on my last trip. I had an 80 mile stretch with NO chargers, and was going to be well below 30%. If I'd been turtled at night in the snow on that stretch.... huge delay and/or very serious consequences!

this is smelling like it should be reported to NHTSA

we need to know a lot more about the conditions causing turtles. i.e. is it below 20F, 0F, -10F or what ?

You're right, depending on the circumstances this can become quite serious. I'd love to dig into the details on this and fully understand all the data too.

 

[Mach-Lee]

What was the ambient outside air temperature when you experienced the loss of power and the turtle symbols?

The % when turtle mode triggers is based on the battery temperature, different than the outside temp. The battery cools off while driving, so it's hard to predict exactly when it will trigger from outside temp unless you are monitoring battery temp. It depends how cold it is, how long you're out, whether you preconditioned, and how fast you're driving/how much wind.

I got turtle mode with about 10% left, lower than others. The battery temp was 36ºF and the outside temp was -8ºF. If your battery temp is really cold like -4ºF/-20ºC then you might get it a lot sooner like 30%.

 

[dtbaker61]

You're right, depending on the circumstances this can become quite serious. I'd love to dig into the details on this and fully understand all the data too.

I think we all need to learn more about how the turtle modes are programmed to work before we panic too much. So let's ask @Ford Motor Company to take this one to the Engineering team and see if they are allowed to post any details on how this is intended to work, and under what conditions things happen.

Otherwise all we can do is speculate and guess the worst case scenario and start filing complaints to NHTSA in fear of being stranded on a mountain pass in the freezing cold with no chargers nearby.

 

[dtbaker61]

The % when turtle mode triggers is based on the battery temperature, different than the outside temp. The battery cools off while driving, so it's hard to predict exactly when it will trigger from outside temp unless you are monitoring battery temp. It depends how cold it is, how long you're out, whether you preconditioned, and how fast you're driving/how much wind.

I got turtle mode with about 10% left, lower than others. The battery temp was 36ºF and the outside temp was -8ºF. If your battery temp is really cold like -4ºF/-20ºC then you might get it a lot sooner like 30%.

this is good info, but I'd like to hear from Ford what the formula is and what conditions it depends on.

I can pull up battery temp on Car scanner, but it doesn't do me any good if my battery starts out a 0F in a ski resort parking lot and I have a 100 mile drive home with no chargers between.

 

[generaltso]

So let's ask @Ford Motor Company to take this one to the Engineering team and see if they are allowed to post any details on how this is intended to work, and under what conditions things happen.

You‘ve been here long enough to know that’s not going to happen. But I’m sure they’d be happy to collect your VIN and dealership info.

 

[dtbaker61]

You‘ve been here long enough to know that’s not going to happen. But I’m sure they’d be happy to collect your VIN and dealership info.

yes, but I am the eternal optimist
and if I can't get a response from @Ford Motor Company I'll do my damndest to address it myself.
you've been around long enough to know that .

 

[GreaseMonkey]

What was the ambient outside air temperature when you experienced the loss of power and the turtle symbols?

When this happened to me yesterday in Chicago temps were around -4F on local city streets. The battery temp was around 25F. I think it’s a combination of temps and SoC. I drove all day and at lower battery temps. It didn’t happen until I was around 12% SoC.

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

When this happened to me yesterday in Chicago temps were around -4F on local city streets. The battery temp was around 25F. I think it’s a combination of temps and SoC. I drove all day and at lower battery temps. It didn’t happen until I was around 12% SoC.

I agree, I think there's a formula and correlation between SOC and battery temp. Or at least I hope....the last thing I want is to go into turtle mode at 70%SOC....

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

I think we all need to learn more about how the turtle modes are programmed to work before we panic too much. So let's ask @Ford Motor Company to take this one to the Engineering team and see if they are allowed to post any details on how this is intended to work, and under what conditions things happen.

Otherwise all we can do is speculate and guess the worst case scenario and start filing complaints to NHTSA in fear of being stranded on a mountain pass in the freezing cold with no chargers nearby.

I have already reached out to Ford Of Canada with a private message on this forum requesting a spreadsheet/graphs from engineering to express the correlation between speed, ambient temperature and SOC in relation to turtle mode and when/if it activates. They have been really good so far with my previous queries. I'll keep you all informed once I hear back from them.

 

[voxel]

All these stories on social media about various EVs going into 'turtle mode" at these extreme low temps is scary.

NMC/NCA cells do not like the cold temps - lithium plating (when charging and regen-ing) and also less capacity at freezing temps. Sodium-Ion batteries have a much wider temperature range. (-70C to 100C compared to -30 to 80C for li-ion)

 

[kltye]

I left the car outdoors without any ability to charge for several nights over the last couple days in Wisconsin. The battery was in the low single digits F in the morning, with the coolant temp below zero. No turtle mode with SoC at ~50%. I noticed the car was aggressively warming up the battery as soon as it started up. I let it do its thing for a 10 minutes or so before I turned on the heat, at which point of course the heater exclusively warmed the cabin. Got to a 50kW charger at about 32% SoC and charged without any issues.

I think the problem happens because the car can't seem to warm the battery while warming the cabin, no matter the set temperature (even if the cabin set temperature is reached and the PTC is cycled off). I think it would be perfectly fine doing a 50/50 split between the cabin and the battery when it first starts for a few minutes, and then a 30/70 split until the battery gets up to temperature.

Edit: Forgot to mention that this was driving at around 55-65 mph to get to the 50kW charger.

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