Uh Oh

[nvabill]

If you go to ICE vehicle forums, everybody spends all their time complaining about auto start/stop.

No, not even close.

Sponsored

 

[RickMachE]

No, not even close.

You must be on the wrong forums.

The F-150 forum was full of constant complaining about Auto Start/Stop, and various ways to disable it. One of the top 2 or 3 regular topics. Oil change frequency and the nonsense that brings was probably #1.

 

[stealthytolkien]

Good but rather long thread so please pardon me for not reading every word.

DEPRECIATION: Like I mentioned in another thread, what we are seeing everywhere is the pause on depreciation (which became appreciation) during COVID finally getting lifted and these first second generation of EVs are getting impacted badly which shouldn’t come as a surprise. Don’t buy a brand new technology from a non-incumbent player (in this context, Ford over Tesla), like a $75k naturally depreciating asset that cars are, and expect it to not crash in value.

COMPLICATED USE CASE: The demand for EV is not exactly waning. People bought a TON of them in the last 3 years. But the demand isn’t not coming from the massive gasoline people moving car userbase for a couple of reasons. First is the obvious one - price. But like any new technology, costs are bound to come down as early adopters like most of us take a massive hit. And let’s just make it clear that none of the EV adopters are “poor” households.

The second reason is more thought provoking - EV shine in day to day city driving currently. And where are the houses? In the suburbs! That’s where home chargers are - which make EV a dream to own. This paradox is further complicating the entry. City drivers don’t want to complicate their lives. I would not touch an EV if I didn’t have a garage with a charger. I am being brutally honest.

Needless to say, these problems are bound to alleviate organically.

 

[TheSteelRider]

You must be on the wrong forums.

The F-150 forum was full of constant complaining about Auto Start/Stop, and various ways to disable it. One of the top 2 or 3 regular topics. Oil change frequency and the nonsense that brings was probably #1.

+1. Our Hondas with s/s are not great. It's "herky jerky". pre-pandemic, I rented a lot for business travel, and encountered _many_ vehicles with s/s. Most of them were similarly not fantastic. That said, a couple months ago I rented a new Chevy Malibu with s/s and was surprised GM has smoothed theirs out finally. But, still in a take it or leave it scenario, I definitely would leave it. I've never talked to anyone that liked it.

 

[nvabill]

You must be on the wrong forums.

The F-150 forum was full of constant complaining about Auto Start/Stop, and various ways to disable it. One of the top 2 or 3 regular topics. Oil change frequency and the nonsense that brings was probably #1.

Again, not even close, but hey, don't take my word for it, see for yourself. Scroll through these pages and look at all the numerous topics having nothing to do with start-stop, like you I believe in the numbers. Don't get me wrong, while it is talked about by many it is not the primary discussion as the previous poster stated.

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/whats-new/posts/?skip=1

 

[Mach1E]

+1. Our Hondas with s/s are not great. It's "herky jerky". pre-pandemic, I rented a lot for business travel, and encountered _many_ vehicles with s/s. Most of them were similarly not fantastic. That said, a couple months ago I rented a new Chevy Malibu with s/s and was surprised GM has smoothed theirs out finally. But, still in a take it or leave it scenario, I definitely would leave it. I've never talked to anyone that liked it.

Stop start is annoying but easily fixed.

My wife’s Lincoln has it.

Either you hit a button when you start the car to turn it off.

Or for $99 you can turn it off completely.

Not a big problem.

 

[TheSteelRider]

Stop start is annoying but easily fixed.

My wife’s Lincoln has it.

Either you hit a button when you start the car to turn it off.

Or for $99 you can turn it off completely.

Not a big problem.

Haven't found a solution to permanently disable Honda's first generation of start/stop, but if you have one please DM me RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW!!!

 

[RickMachE]

Again, not even close, but hey, don't take my word for it, see for yourself. Scroll through these pages and look at all the numerous topics having nothing to do with start-stop, like you I believe in the numbers and they don't lie.

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/whats-new/posts/?skip=1

On the site www.f150forum.com, the term "start/stop" results in 47,200 results. On the site you referenced, it's only 8,210 results. I expect that difference is because the former site is the largest F-150 forum.

 

[Mach1E]

Haven't found a solution to permanently disable Honda's first generation of start/stop, but if you have one please DM me RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW!!!

Something like this? https://www.idlestopper.com/

Obviously depends on the yr and model you have.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Nope, I'll take the blame. I killed the Gen2 Lightning, 300zx, SVO Mustangs, Can-Am x3's. Usually I manage to buy whatever it is about 2 years before interest fully drops. Oh and it's not just cars. I have lots of 'other toys' that have all taken a value dump as well.

So there you have it. It’s Erik’s fault. ??

 

[nvabill]

On the site www.f150forum.com, the term "start/stop" results in 47,200 results. On the site you referenced, it's only 8,210 results. I expect that difference is because the former site is the largest F-150 forum.

You do realize when I said not even close I was responding to @Exordium01 's post stating, "If you go to ICE vehicle forums, everybody spends all their time complaining about auto start/stop."?

That statement is no more correct than if I say everybody on this forum spends all their time talking about charging which we know is not the case.

Come on Rick, you are all about the numbers, do you want me to search this forum for the word charging so I can say everybody on here spends their time talking about charging even though I know it's not true?

 

[Otto klub]

Stop start is annoying but easily fixed.

My wife’s Lincoln has it.

Either you hit a button when you start the car to turn it off.

Or for $99 you can turn it off completely.

Not a big problem.

Some have a button some don't.
My F 150 has the button to shut off.
Wifes Equinox no button, daughters Honda CRV no button.

 

[Blue highway]

there's about a 65% home ownership in the US. The rest rent or can not modify their homes easily. I don't consider Lvl 1 charging adequate. So I'm not including access to LVL 1 charging.

So far, the vast majority of EV buyers are on the wealthier side of the income spectrum so a lot of those that bought EVs owned their homes. But at some point you have to look at the people that don't own homes.

When the avg household income is <70k a year, I don't see these people owning their own homes buying new 40-50k EVs.

EV's now cost approximately what the average ICE car costs...

 

[Blue highway]

Then why do you claim interest in EVs is not waning? You said, " There is no "declining interest in EVs." When fewer people are interested in EVs (see post #19) sales will fall. I believe the sale forecasts you cite were earlier in the year. Here are some from December that pretty much refute your claim that interest in EV is not declining.

"...the sales pace slowed to 50% year-over-year by June 2023, and last month, it dropped to 35% year-over-year.

Some automakers are reevaluating their costly EV strategies as the year comes to a close.

Ford has sold just under 36,000 Mach Es through November, only a 3.5% increase over the same period last year. The company’s inventory of Mach Es has been growing much of the year. It had more than 24,000 at or en route to dealers at the end of last month, even though it has been cutting production for the past two months. Yet, Lightning pickup sales of 20,365 are up almost 54%. “We have to manage supply with demand,” said Erich Merkle, Ford’s head of U.S. sales analysis. “We would do that with any product in our portfolio.”


Ford recently announced plans to delay one new EV battery plant, shrink the size of another, and postpone $12 billion worth of future electric vehicle spending. GM also delayed retooling an EV plant, and Volkswagen has delayed plans in Europe."

Fortune

Facts: (see link)
Interest in EVs is not declining.
Sales of EVs are are at an all time high. (growth declined to 42% YOY growth... )
https://www.energy.gov/articles/cor...ing to a survey done,meet the surge in demand.


Pundits saying EV demand is slowing are simply wrong.
1) they mostly have an axe to grind
2) they are confusing a huge ramp up in supply with declining demand.

 

[Blue highway]

Days of supply is the measure of how quickly a vehicle is selling.

Total sales is a measure of total demand.


So while EVs are sitting on lots, of total sales are up……. Total demand is up.

All these numbers tell us is that currently-

Supply is outstripping demand.

This DOES NOT mean that demand is decreasing, just that supply increased faster than demand.

Solution? Build less EVs until demand can catch up and they won’t sit so long on the lots.

The problem is that we were in such short supply a couple years ago that manufacturers over produced hoping that trend would continue.

+1 AND, it takes months to change production plans. When car companies estimate wrong, (high or low) it takes most of a year to adjust production... there are a lot of moving parts in the supply chain and manufacturing worlds.

Sponsored