Would you pay for a BlueCruise Subscription?

Would you pay for a Blue Cruise Subscription?


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mh_mach_e

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I've owned my MachE for 7 months and I have 12,000 miles on it. I drive 35 miles each way to/from work, 3 days a week. About 30 of those miles are on highways which are supported by BCHF. Sometimes it works throughout my commute and I appreciate it greatly. Other times it reminds me, as a 30+ year software engineer, how terrible software engineers are.

At $200/year I would like to think I would not subscribe out of principal. The reality is I probably would because I do get plenty of use from this -- when it works. That said, I paid $70,000 for this car with the understanding that I was paying for Blue Cruise Hands-Free for life. I know now that my understanding was wrong, I only paid for "Blue Cruise", not "Blue Cruise Hands Free". Congratulations Ford, you succeeded in tricking me with a deceptively similar name for a similar feature. (I won't be surprised if there's a class action law suit about this in the future.) I feel that asking your customers to subscribe to a $200/year feature when they've paid thousands for the vehicle is pretty sleezy.

If you want me to pay $800/year, you need to:

a) Make this thing work nearly 100% of the time. I accept that if visibility is too impaired, or if road conditions are too slippery, if it's too windy, or if something is interfering with my sensors, you cannot safely run this. However, no matter what reason you have to stop operating, you better make the reason available to me every single time. If I know why you're not operating I can accept that it's for the good. If you don't tell me why you refuse to operate, you just confirm my feeling that you don't know how to write decent software.

b) Make this thing work on every road that you can detect the edges of. It's fine that at the moment you're not prepared to do that, however you have no legitimacy in being prepared to charge so much without that (and probably even with it).

c) Here's the big one: not only hands free, but eyes free. If you're not letting me sleep while you take over, you aren't earning a high price tag on hardware I've already paid for. I recognize that technology might have a bit to overcome before this can be safely accomplished, but you want a large price tag so need to provide the value. BCHF in it's current state is so far away from even $200/year value that you embarrass yourself in suggesting $800/year.

That said, if there's a subscription model in the first place, why is it per time period? I'm pretty sure almost nobody measures the use they get from their car in years, they measure it in miles. The value one gets from a while-driving feature is not magnified based on longevity, it's magnified based on usage. Shouldn't you be charging by value, measured in the way your customers measure it?

I truly cannot imagine, if $200/year or even $800/year, you're going to make money on subscriptions for this. Even if you are able to though, I wonder if you've considered customer retention? While I'm not the most Ford loyal driver on the planet, this is my 2nd Mustang and my 3rd Ford product so clearly I'm not buying from you begrudgingly. BCHF was the biggest factor in my decision to buy my MachE but as already mentioned, your deceptive terminology caused me to not realize exactly what I was buying, and had that been clear I may have gone a different direction. Now, in 3 years when my BCHF is expected to start charging, it'll probably also be a time when EV technology has advanced well beyond what it's at now and I suspect I'll be investigating buying a new car. My EV experience will have been "bought a car for the hands free driving technology, without knowing corporate greed was tricking me and I need to keep paying indefinitely". I accept that was my mistake to have made and nobody forced me to buy without looking more into it first. I also learn from my mistakes. And I don't do repeat business with companies when I think they take advantage of their customers' trust. Where do you think you currently sit in the loyalty column?
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blheron

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i only use BC a few times a year. So if the pice is a little more reasonable i would pay, but not $800.
 

KevinS

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Here's what I don't care for, I PAID for the extra hardware and software to be present in the car. Ford is in effect, holding it ransom unless I pay them EXTRA money just to be able to continue to use it. This is as dumb as BMW making people pay to turn on the heated seats already installed in the vehicle.
By that logic, you should also have free SiriusXM because the car came with the capability to have it. Are you looking for that too?

You paid for hardware that enabled a software service (that was given with a free trial period.) You are neither owed hands-free BlueCruise or SiriusXM in perpetuity but it does enable the next owner to do so, which does improve its resale value in some form.
 

byoungblood

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By that logic, you should also have free SiriusXM because the car came with the capability to have it. Are you looking for that too?

You paid for hardware that enabled a software service (that was given with a free trial period.) You are neither owed hands-free BlueCruise or SiriusXM in perpetuity but it does enable the next owner to do so, which does improve its resale value in some form.
Satellite radio is a service.

This is a software/hardware driven feature in a vehicle that at its core does not require a subscription. The only point of continuing to pay for it would be to receive future map and feature updates. The auto industry as a whole is trying to condition the public into thinking that any feature above and beyond its basic function is subscription worthy.

If you wanted to take your logic to an absurd conclusion, then we should be paying a monthly subscription to Ford just to drive the car, on top of what you've already paid for the vehicle. After all, I've just paid for hardware that has a bunch of software running on it for the car to perform most of its basic functions.

You must work in the software industry...
 

KevinS

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Hands-free is a software service. The car is sold with the Prep Package for hands-free.

There is nothing essential or basic about having hands-free driving. Pay for it, or don't. Get over it.

And no, I'm not in the software industry.
 


sdoo25

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I just drove from Atlanta to Knoxville and back and it worked great on I75. Also I'm in the middle of a trip from Atlanta to Tampa and it's worked great as well. That said, I wouldn't pay $800 per year but I would like to have a monthly option for when I do travel. I don't need the service for everyday use.
 

Jimrpa

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Satellite radio is a service.

This is a software/hardware driven feature in a vehicle that at its core does not require a subscription. The only point of continuing to pay for it would be to receive future map and feature updates. The auto industry as a whole is trying to condition the public into thinking that any feature above and beyond its basic function is subscription worthy.

If you wanted to take your logic to an absurd conclusion, then we should be paying a monthly subscription to Ford just to drive the car, on top of what you've already paid for the vehicle. After all, I've just paid for hardware that has a bunch of software running on it for the car to perform most of its basic functions.

You must work in the software industry...
I believe you miss the point that, at its heart, BlueCruise Hands-Free IS a service. The service you’re paying for is NOT the suite of sensors and dedicated processors in the vehicle. The service is continued maintenance, update, and certification of the database of roads on which Ford will allow the system to engage (remember, Ford will face liability for every incident where it’s determined that BlueCruise Hands-Free is active because the idiot will claim “it’s not MY fault - the car was in hands-free mode!” 🙄). Additionally, the service includes periodic maintenance of the on-board software to correct bugs Finally, the service includes potential future feature enhancements
Personally, I will pay the $600/3 year renewal that I expect to be available as a MY21 Job 1 purchaser I doubt I’ll still have the vehicle after 6 years, so I’ll ultimately go with whatever my new car would have.
 

Jimrpa

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a) Make this thing work nearly 100% of the time. I accept that if visibility is too impaired, or if road conditions are too slippery, if it's too windy, or if something is interfering with my sensors, you cannot safely run this. However, no matter what reason you have to stop operating, you better make the reason available to me every single time. If I know why you're not operating I can accept that it's for the good. If you don't tell me why you refuse to operate, you just confirm my feeling that you don't know how to write decent software.
You DO realize that one of the biggest issues with neural network based systems is that it’s not always possible to tell why they “made the decision” they did? Why did the Neural Network decide that one sign reads 35 MPH and the next time it sees the same sign and comes up with “85 MPH”? The answer always glibly given to shut people up is “the system needs more training / better training datasets.” The real answer is more likely 🤷‍♂️
If you’re able to get complete, detailed, comprehensive explanations that show how and why a neural network makes every decision it does, then please reach out to your local community college and demand your PhD in mathematics post haste (and patent everything including the bathroom tissue used in the development of the general solution).

b) Make this thing work on every road that you can detect the edges of. It's fine that at the moment you're not prepared to do that, however you have no legitimacy in being prepared to charge so much without that (and probably even with it).
Apparently, you’ve never done any work in vision and edge detection (of objects), let alone object recognition. You know who has? Brand T. Go look at some of the cute videos of Brand T blithely ignoring lane markings, traffic signs, and obstacles, as their vehicles careen across public roadways 😀😀😀
Define “road” accurately and completely, with zero ambiguity. Come back to the game when you have that done. 😉
c) Here's the big one: not only hands free, but eyes free. If you're not letting me sleep while you take over, you aren't earning a high price tag on hardware I've already paid for. I recognize that technology might have a bit to overcome before this can be safely accomplished, but you want a large price tag so need to provide the value. BCHF in its current state is so far away from even $200/year value that you embarrass yourself in suggesting $800/year.
“Eyes-free”? In our current vehicles, with the current hardware and software suite? You’re looking for Uber. The app is available in the App Store and the google thing.
That said, if there's a subscription model in the first place, why is it per time period? I'm pretty sure almost nobody measures the use they get from their car in years, they measure it in miles. The value one gets from a while-driving feature is not magnified based on longevity, it's magnified based on usage. Shouldn't you be charging by value, measured in the way your customers measure it?
Because most people are familiar with and understand time-based subscriptions a usage-based subscription would be more difficult to implement, explain, and bill.
 

awp0

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What a funny argument. XM/Sirius isn't even listed on my window sticker. BlueCruise is, and there's no mention of a subscription or prep kit. In fact it's listed in the section titled "standard equipment included at no extra charge", right alongside the wireless charging pad. What a deceptive joke this is.

It is also not obvious at all that Bluecruise is a "service", at least for a new buyer. Most of us today don't even understand why it requires pre-mapped roads with regular map updates. I couldn't explain to you why it's designed this way, rather than an offline system with lane-centering+ACC+eye-nanny.

Then they quadrupled the price, months after purchase. I mean, sure, I think people can expect modest and infrequent price increases that loosely correspond with inflation. But quadrupling the price, even for people who already own the car? Come on.

I think you'd have to be a die-hard Ford apologist to consider this behavior to be a fair and honest interaction with customers.
 

KevinS

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What a funny argument. XM/Sirius isn't even listed on my window sticker. BlueCruise is, and there's no mention of a subscription or prep kit. In fact it's listed in the section titled "standard equipment included at no extra charge", right alongside the wireless charging pad. What a deceptive joke this is.

It is also not obvious at all that Bluecruise is a "service", at least for a new buyer. Most of us today don't even understand why it requires pre-mapped roads with regular map updates. I couldn't explain to you why it's designed this way, rather than an offline system with lane-centering+ACC+eye-nanny.

Then they quadrupled the price, months after purchase. I mean, sure, I think people can expect modest and infrequent price increases that loosely correspond with inflation. But quadrupling the price, even for people who already own the car? Come on.

I think you'd have to be a die-hard Ford apologist to consider this behavior to be a fair and honest interaction with customers.
Please post your window sticker.

My 2021 under optional equipment lists the Technology and Comfort package, which includes the FORD CO-PILOT360 ACTV2.0 PREP item. Does yours not list that item at all?

Going to Ford's website gives me this:
https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...-is-the-ford-co-pilot360-active-prep-package/

The Co-Pilot360 Active 2.0 Prep Package includes new offerings such as Ford BlueCruise**, allowing for hands-free driving on more than 130,000 miles of highway across North America using various cameras and sensors.
**BlueCruise is a hands-free highway driving feature. Only remove your hands from the steering wheel when in a Hands-Free Blue Zone. Always watch the road and be prepared to resume control of the vehicle. It does not replace safe driving. Requires purchased 3‑year connected service plan with regular map updates, the FordPass App, and modem activation. Final pricing is subject to change and plus applicable taxes.
From everything I have and the website info, there's no reason for me to expect anything for free.

(EDIT) And this: https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...w-much-does-it-cost-to-renew-ford-bluecruise/

Breaks out the price changes per model year.
 
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iam-s-Hon

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Yes, down Rte 1 it works until you hit around Dover. It does not work at all on Route 50 until you hit Kent Island.
It's a Slower Delaware thing.
 

awp0

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Please post your window sticker.

My 2021 under optional equipment lists the Technology and Comfort package, which includes the FORD CO-PILOT360 ACTV2.0 PREP item. Does yours not list that item at all?

Going to Ford's website gives me this:
https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...-is-the-ford-co-pilot360-active-prep-package/





From everything I have and the website info, there's no reason for me to expect anything for free.

(EDIT) And this: https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...w-much-does-it-cost-to-renew-ford-bluecruise/

Breaks out the price changes per model year.

As requested, sticker attached.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Would you pay for a BlueCruise Subscription? Screenshot 2023-08-10 at 10.20.41 PM
 

PaulP

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That's where I live so no, I won't pas.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Would you pay for a BlueCruise Subscription? Screenshot_20230811-071125
 

KevinS

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As requested, sticker attached.
Thanks for the follow-through... worse than I had assumed, quite frankly. I see your point.

Ford continues to muddy the waters by calling everything Bluecruise. Mine has no mention of the word Bluecruise. I can understand why it's not clear for you from your window sticker, even if they break it out on their website.

Because BC hadn't been released when I purchased my car it has always been clear that it was a separate subscription package. For 2022+, you could either get a subscription package with the car or a 90-day trial for free (maybe that was 2023+ only.) That's been my understanding of the way it works.

I don't expect to renew mine without coverage improvements in my area. If I were a 2022 or 2023 model owner, I wouldn't renew just based on the cost.

I did have the option to get a car without the tech and comfort package but decided to go ahead and do it because I figured it could be more valuable for trade-in/resale if it had that capability.

Here's my sticker for comparison:

Ford Mustang Mach-E Would you pay for a BlueCruise Subscription? stick
 
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mh_mach_e

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You DO realize that one of the biggest issues with neural network based systems is that it’s not always possible to tell why they “made the decision” they did? Why did the Neural Network decide that one sign reads 35 MPH and the next time it sees the same sign and comes up with “85 MPH”?
... redacted other explanations for why the problem is difficult to solve...
Yes, I agree, these are very difficult problems to solve, but -- take off your engineering hat and put on your consumer hat, and then tell me: If someone wants to sell you a product for a premium price, do you care how difficult it is for them to make that product perform in a premium way? I think most people do not. What I'm saying is that in my opinion Ford is over valuing their BCHF product, and what changes they would need to make to keep the same price and make the product worth it. If making the changes is too difficult, I can accept that with an appropriate price reduction.


“Eyes-free”? In our current vehicles, with the current hardware and software suite? You’re looking for Uber. The app is available in the App Store and the google thing.
Again, a premium price demands a premium product. The fact that technology is not quite ready for this does not mean I'm looking for Uber, it means that technology is not yet ready to command such a price (in my opinion as someone Ford hopes will pay that price).

Because most people are familiar with and understand time-based subscriptions a usage-based subscription would be more difficult to implement, explain, and bill.
Maybe this is a situation where it's me wearing my engineering hat rather than my consumer hat, but a usage based subscription seems pretty simple to explain to me.

If you're going to charge me for a time based subscription (which directly means: even if I choose not to use it) rather than my actual usage, you better have the product working every single time I want to use it within my subscription period or you better be ready to issue partial refunds when it fails to do that. Otherwise, you're just stealing from me. I suspect Ford would have a terrible logistics problem issuing refunds based on its current failure rate.
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