From Mach-E LR AWD 2021 to...Ioniq 5, EV6 or Mach-E LR AWD 2025?

[therealpinto]

We are approaching the end of our company lease (already extended 1 year so no more extension possible). It has been mostly 4 good years with the Mach-E (delivered early December 2021), and now close to 80 000 kms or 50 000 miles.

Since last time, Ford has been moved to another dealer that seems far less interested in actually selling a car. The Ioniq5 and EV6 have a really nice 1600 kg towing weight (matches our camper perfectly), they also seem like reasonable EV's and also, here in Sweden, a fair bit cheaper than the Mach-E (between 6 000 and 10 000 US).

So I got the chance to take an EV6 home over night last week (a good dealer will let you do that). The option that matches our Mach-E is a GT-line AWD, 2025 facelift. I was able to do around 100 kms in it so a decent test drive. Basically, the driving experience is mostly on par with our Mach-E - but I miss a true one pedal drive mode (at least I can't figure it out). Yes, the paddle can engage it, but it will disengage after reversing (where it does not seem to do one pedal at all?) or after a restart.

Infotainment is, in my opinion, not as good as the Mach-E. I also miss the Android Auto/Google Maps integration with battery percentage etc (that the last update gave our Mach-E).

The big thing was the touch controls for seat heaters, steering wheel heat at cooled seats. A "feature" on the highest spec EV6's, but the facelift calibration seems way off. It worked maybe 1-5% of the times I tried to use it. The dealer checked and it was the same for him, also in another example on the lot. They are investigating.

The app is in some ways nicer than FordPass, in some ways worse. Cabin conditioning seems a bit hit and miss - I had it programmed for 7.40 am, and by that time the windscreen was still misted. The car declared itself "ready" around 7.50. I am fearing that not having the heated windscreen we have on the European Mach-E would be a downside that will be considerable, here in the northern part of the Nordics.

After returning the Kia I decided to have a look at the Ioniq5 - same platform, but keeps the physical buttons for seat heaters etc. They only had a 2024 (pre-facelift) demo and it was just a 20 minute drive. Driving wise, it is "the same" as the Kia. Maybe the Ioniq5 felt a bit more mature on the inside but both feel "Asian" as my wife agreed. Not that it is something wrong, but different from the Mach-E.

Both of the Asian twins also have a minimal frunk, that is also a separate compartment under the "bonnet". I have a feeling it would see even less use than in our current Mach-E.

So what about the 2025 Mach-E? It gets is a 1500 kg towing weight (and is heavier than the others, meaning I need an upgraded license to be able to tow the camper somewhat legally). It gets the heat pump that may or may not be a plus here in our climate. The smaller frunk is not a big deal, as long as I pack the mobile charger and type 2 cord it is OK.

So, in short, the "twins" win on towing weight, charging speed, and price. Bonuses that are not "dealmakers" are V2L, heated rear seats - and so far, better dealers.

The Mach-E has the better interior, better infotainment, heated windscreen, real one-pedal-driving. It should have (maybe) the kick-to-open tailgate (still listed as a standard feature in Sweden). It has free OTA (for now? Kia makes you pay eventually). Oh, and I can speak to it with Forscan (meaning, for example, I can turn on the rear lights). But so far - the dealer is not...inspiring?

The jury is still out here...

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[Mach1E]

We are approaching the end of our company lease (already extended 1 year so no more extension possible). It has been mostly 4 good years with the Mach-E (delivered early December 2021), and now close to 80 000 kms or 50 000 miles.

Since last time, Ford has been moved to another dealer that seems far less interested in actually selling a car. The Ioniq5 and EV6 have a really nice 1600 kg towing weight (matches our camper perfectly), they also seem like reasonable EV's and also, here in Sweden, a fair bit cheaper than the Mach-E (between 6 000 and 10 000 US).

So I got the chance to take an EV6 home over night last week (a good dealer will let you do that). The option that matches our Mach-E is a GT-line AWD, 2025 facelift. I was able to do around 100 kms in it so a decent test drive. Basically, the driving experience is mostly on par with our Mach-E - but I miss a true one pedal drive mode (at least I can't figure it out). Yes, the paddle can engage it, but it will disengage after reversing (where it does not seem to do one pedal at all?) or after a restart.

Infotainment is, in my opinion, not as good as the Mach-E. I also miss the Android Auto/Google Maps integration with battery percentage etc (that the last update gave our Mach-E).

The big thing was the touch controls for seat heaters, steering wheel heat at cooled seats. A "feature" on the highest spec EV6's, but the facelift calibration seems way off. It worked maybe 1-5% of the times I tried to use it. The dealer checked and it was the same for him, also in another example on the lot. They are investigating.

The app is in some ways nicer than FordPass, in some ways worse. Cabin conditioning seems a bit hit and miss - I had it programmed for 7.40 am, and by that time the windscreen was still misted. The car declared itself "ready" around 7.50. I am fearing that not having the heated windscreen we have on the European Mach-E would be a downside that will be considerable, here in the northern part of the Nordics.

After returning the Kia I decided to have a look at the Ioniq5 - same platform, but keeps the physical buttons for seat heaters etc. They only had a 2024 (pre-facelift) demo and it was just a 20 minute drive. Driving wise, it is "the same" as the Kia. Maybe the Ioniq5 felt a bit more mature on the inside but both feel "Asian" as my wife agreed. Not that it is something wrong, but different from the Mach-E.

Both of the Asian twins also have a minimal frunk, that is also a separate compartment under the "bonnet". I have a feeling it would see even less use than in our current Mach-E.

So what about the 2025 Mach-E? It gets is a 1500 kg towing weight (and is heavier than the others, meaning I need an upgraded license to be able to tow the camper somewhat legally). It gets the heat pump that may or may not be a plus here in our climate. The smaller frunk is not a big deal, as long as I pack the mobile charger and type 2 cord it is OK.

So, in short, the "twins" win on towing weight, charging speed, and price. Bonuses that are not "dealmakers" are V2L, heated rear seats - and so far, better dealers.

The Mach-E has the better interior, better infotainment, heated windscreen, real one-pedal-driving. It should have (maybe) the kick-to-open tailgate (still listed as a standard feature in Sweden). It has free OTA (for now? Kia makes you pay eventually). Oh, and I can speak to it with Forscan (meaning, for example, I can turn on the rear lights). But so far - the dealer is not...inspiring?

The jury is still out here...

Since price was mentioned, why turn in the lease at all? Why not just buy it out and keep the 2021?

That would be way cheaper. Doesn’t sound like you really like any of the cars you are considering much more than the one you already have, so why spend the money?

Or option 2 is buy another used 2021 or 2022 Mach E with lower mileage.

I don’t see the point of buying new if you aren’t really excited about anything new.

 

[Creaky]

He is on a corporate lease, so he's not buying it but his employer is paying for it

 

[ARK]

Since price was mentioned, why turn in the lease at all? Why not just buy it out and keep the 2021?

That would be way cheaper. Doesn’t sound like you really like any of the cars you are considering much more than the one you already have, so why spend the money?

Or option 2 is buy another used 2021 or 2022 Mach E with lower mileage.

I don’t see the point of buying new if you aren’t really excited about anything new.

I’ve learned through this forum that a car is apparently a relatively common job perk in Europe. Based on this, my question to OP would be why he extended the lease at all when the company could have gotten him a new ride last year!

 

[therealpinto]

Well, we still pay for the car ;-) but it is a system where the cost is deducted from the salary (meaning some tax benefits).

If we still want to do that, it needs to be a brand new car.

Buying the one we have could be an option. However, I really want to be able to tow the camper. Also, the price we have to pay will be "market price" and there is no way to know what that is beforehand. But yes, we are happy enough that we could live with a slightly used Mach-E.

On the other hand, warranty is nice, and a new car comes with a new set of tires (and in our case, a set of studded winter tires).

I should not say "money is not an object" but the price difference between a Mach-E and the others is not significant, meaning, we really don't have to sacrifice anything (money wise) to get the MME.

The reflection here is maybe the "EQ vs IQ" of a car choice for me. Meaning, the way I feel about the car in non-rational ways (EQ) is important, and it's just not the rational aspects (the IQ) that will win.

What would be interesting is to know others that have moved in this direction - what are your experiences? The ICCU issues with the "Asians" are also a negative.

 

[ARK]

We are approaching the end of our company lease (already extended 1 year so no more extension possible). It has been mostly 4 good years with the Mach-E (delivered early December 2021), and now close to 80 000 kms or 50 000 miles.

Since last time, Ford has been moved to another dealer that seems far less interested in actually selling a car. The Ioniq5 and EV6 have a really nice 1600 kg towing weight (matches our camper perfectly), they also seem like reasonable EV's and also, here in Sweden, a fair bit cheaper than the Mach-E (between 6 000 and 10 000 US).

So I got the chance to take an EV6 home over night last week (a good dealer will let you do that). The option that matches our Mach-E is a GT-line AWD, 2025 facelift. I was able to do around 100 kms in it so a decent test drive. Basically, the driving experience is mostly on par with our Mach-E - but I miss a true one pedal drive mode (at least I can't figure it out). Yes, the paddle can engage it, but it will disengage after reversing (where it does not seem to do one pedal at all?) or after a restart.

Infotainment is, in my opinion, not as good as the Mach-E. I also miss the Android Auto/Google Maps integration with battery percentage etc (that the last update gave our Mach-E).

The big thing was the touch controls for seat heaters, steering wheel heat at cooled seats. A "feature" on the highest spec EV6's, but the facelift calibration seems way off. It worked maybe 1-5% of the times I tried to use it. The dealer checked and it was the same for him, also in another example on the lot. They are investigating.

The app is in some ways nicer than FordPass, in some ways worse. Cabin conditioning seems a bit hit and miss - I had it programmed for 7.40 am, and by that time the windscreen was still misted. The car declared itself "ready" around 7.50. I am fearing that not having the heated windscreen we have on the European Mach-E would be a downside that will be considerable, here in the northern part of the Nordics.

After returning the Kia I decided to have a look at the Ioniq5 - same platform, but keeps the physical buttons for seat heaters etc. They only had a 2024 (pre-facelift) demo and it was just a 20 minute drive. Driving wise, it is "the same" as the Kia. Maybe the Ioniq5 felt a bit more mature on the inside but both feel "Asian" as my wife agreed. Not that it is something wrong, but different from the Mach-E.

Both of the Asian twins also have a minimal frunk, that is also a separate compartment under the "bonnet". I have a feeling it would see even less use than in our current Mach-E.

So what about the 2025 Mach-E? It gets is a 1500 kg towing weight (and is heavier than the others, meaning I need an upgraded license to be able to tow the camper somewhat legally). It gets the heat pump that may or may not be a plus here in our climate. The smaller frunk is not a big deal, as long as I pack the mobile charger and type 2 cord it is OK.

So, in short, the "twins" win on towing weight, charging speed, and price. Bonuses that are not "dealmakers" are V2L, heated rear seats - and so far, better dealers.

The Mach-E has the better interior, better infotainment, heated windscreen, real one-pedal-driving. It should have (maybe) the kick-to-open tailgate (still listed as a standard feature in Sweden). It has free OTA (for now? Kia makes you pay eventually). Oh, and I can speak to it with Forscan (meaning, for example, I can turn on the rear lights). But so far - the dealer is not...inspiring?

The jury is still out here...

It seems you have really done your homework OP. I would say is the Ford dealer that important? At least during my ownership, I’ve had only a few contacts with them.

For the vehicles themselves, I’d say check out this MotorTrend article published yesterday where they compare six (edit: seven) popular EV SUVs, including the Mach-E and the Korean twins for some additional perspective. They rank the Mach-E first, and that would certainly be my vote!

 

[therealpinto]

I’ve learned through this forum that a car is apparently and relatively common job perk in the Europe. Based on this, my question to OP would be why did he extend the lease at all when the company could have gotten him a new ride last year!

Simple (almost), at that point in time the MY2025 Mach-E was not available, and on top of that, Ford Sweden did not take orders for "new" cars, they only sold what they already had in dealer lots. That meant we could not order a car to replace the current MME in advance, we would have to wait until the lease went out, to see what was available. In light of what the MY2025 could be, extending a year was a good option.

I might have considered an EV6 or Ioniq5 closer then, but the Kia dealer in town was in financial trouble (and went bankrupt) and the Ioniq kind of flew under the radar...

 

[music_cities]

Since they both can tow, I'd buy the one that puts the bigger smile on my face when I drive it. I really liked the 2023 Ioniq 5 when I test drove it, but the MachE put a bigger smile on my face.

I suppose price probably came into it. The Ioniqs were limited in stock in Nov 2023, so it seemed we'd have to pay MSRP price. We found a MachE GT that had been sitting on the lot for a year, that the dealer was willing to negotiate on. So, we didn't have to pay more to get the car that I wanted.

I wish we could tow here in North America with our MachEs.

 

[therealpinto]

It seems you have really done your homework OP. I would say is the Ford dealer that important? At least during my ownership, I’ve had only a few contacts with them.

For the vehicles themselves, I’d say check out this MotorTrend article published yesterday where they compare six (edit: seven) popular EV SUVs, including the Mach-E and the Korean twins for some additional perspective. They rank the Mach-E first, and that would certainly be my vote!

Thanks for that link! It confirms some of my thoughts (although I found the dual use control panel for climate and audio quite OK).

The Premium MME in Sweden is not listed with ventilated seats, maybe we get the heated windscreen instead (and I am happy with that).

 

[Creaky]

Well, we still pay for the car ;-) but it is a system where the cost is deducted from the salary (meaning some tax benefits).

Ah, quite different from the Netherlands I see, where a company car is seen as income, over which you pay income taxes.

 

[therealpinto]

Ah, quite different from the Netherlands I see, where a company car is seen as income, over which you pay income taxes.

We have both alternatives here. The one you mention is usually when the employer "demands" that you have a car, and the employer takes on the cost. Then you are taxed for the benefit of having a "free car".

In our case it is more of a employee benefit, and it is cost neutral (supposedly) for the company. Since part of the lease is paid with untaxed money the actual cost goes down a bit compared to a private leasing. Plus, usually you are entitled to some company discounts (depending on make) - Kia offers 8% on the car and 10% on equipment.

Back in 2021, one of the main reasons we went for the leasing was that we were really uncertain about the 2nd hand value of a 3-4 year old MME in 2024-2025. In that sense we were right, back then the prediction was that it would be at around 50-60% of original price, today it is more like 45%. Not a huge difference but noticeable.

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

It really sounds like you're looking for reasons to get another Mach E (which I totally understand). From what you've described, the only (potential) deal breaker seems to be 100 kg towing capacity difference. What isn't clear to me is if you can still tow your camper with the Mach E, or not...? How are you towing it now? If you can sort through the towing issue, then I think the MME is the way to go, given your stated preferences.

 

[therealpinto]

I have a diesel 2017 Kuga (Escape in the US) that I use for "heavy" towing (car trailer, camper) and I will keep that for the foreseeable future.

The towing part is a bit complex, but I'll try to explain.

A standard drivers license in Sweden lets you drive a combined total weight (registered max weights of car and trailer) of 3500 kg. An "extended" license (what I have) increases that to 4250 kg.

On top of that, the actual weight (let's call that curb weight) of the trailer has to be no more than the tow weight of the car.

The Kia and Huyndai both have the 1600 kg tow weight, and both have a maximum permitted weight that means a 1600 kg trailer and car is under 4250 kg combined. So that combination is legal with no loop holes with my license.

The MME is heavier, so to stay under 4250 kg the trailer has to have a maximum allowed weight of 1560 kg.

You can also get a "heavy trailer license" and in that case the maximum combined weight is much higher (say 7000 kg). With that, the MME (MY 2023.5 and newer, that has a 1500 kg tow weight) can tow a trailer with a maximum permitted weight that is higher (like the 1600 kg of our camper), as long as it is not laden with stuff so the actual curb weight is maximum 1500 kg.

In practice, it means we could tow the camper if we can avoid filling it with stuff. And actually getting stopped by a police with a scale set is not very common. So usually it is fine if you have the right license. But if you dont have the "heavy trailer license" it's another deal....

 

[carbonizedbrett]

So I went from a 2021 Premium 4X Mach-E that I drove almost exclusively in 1-pedal mode.

I replaced it with the forgotten triplet of EV6/Ioniq5, a Genesis GV60 Performance and expounded on what I lost and and what I gained in a post or two here but let me just talk about the 1-Pedal situation here.

I'm curious why "true 1-Pedal" is important to you - perhaps you have a use-case that I don't - because I do not use it all on the GV60.

It *can* be enabled on a per drive basis but it resets because the way it's implemented has an efficiency penalty.

I'm not sure it's the same in the EV6/I5, but the GV60 has an "Auto Regen" mode that sticks in the 1, 2, or 3 level but not the 0 level. You can change the levels with the paddles and I leave mine on 1 and occasionally switch it to 0. I now love this way more than "true 1-Pedal."

It uses the radar and angle information to automagically increase the regen level. Traffic ahead? Come off the pedal entirely and coast until you get closer when the car smoothly slows you down. Going down a steep hill? Lift off and it will increase Regen so you don't keep speeding up. It does this so much like I would do it myself I joke that it's reading my mind.

I find myself covering the brake in a variety situations where my foot would still be on the 1-pedal and that I will be able to apply full panic friction braking quicker if necessary.

I also like how the car creeps more like a traditional automatic ICE car. I modulate slow speeds with the brake pedal instead of the 1-pedal and I feel like I have less risk of unintentionally accelerating. And again, I'm already poised for full-on emergency friction braking.

I was pretty darn smooth with 1P in the Mach E but I think I'm smoother in the GV60 and it makes it even easier to be so.

 

[therealpinto]

It might be just habit but I like 1P, it feels natural now that we have used it for 4 years. That said, it our part of the world traffic is not very busy.

Re-learning for the "Asians" is surely possible.

On that note, the Kia dealer today confirmed that the touch panel is faulty and will be replaced in the demo car. So I will go back and re-test

I fully expect any car to have some issues and that is why the dealer experience is a factor. Also, I like to make business with someone who likes to make business with me. So my old buddies at the former Ford dealer in town (that still services Ford) has relayed me to the dealer south from here. Let's see what they can do.

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