This is the reason it will be hard for Ford to compete with Tesla

[Illinibird]

I’ve read all of these horror stories about experiences at dealerships and agree having experienced some of them myself (actually recently where a member of this forum was unable to take his ordered car which just happened to be the EXACT car I ordered; long story short - he was going to get it with X-Plan but when I wanted to buy it at X-Plan they said “no” and tacked on $3,000 ADM). Back to my point, although the dealership model is flawed for many reasons, what about service for our cars? If I owned a Tesla I would be in a real bind to get the car serviced because there aren’t any Tesla dealers around where I live. Contrast this to Ford where there are thousands of dealers and you can always find somewhere to get your car serviced. In my personal situation, I can literally walk 15 minutes to my dealer and when I have service if I don’t want to wait I can walk home. I hate going to Sales/Showroom but love the Service Department which gets consistent 5 stars on evaluation. With no dealers, however, we would all be in a bind when it came time to service our Mach E’s. Just my $0.02.

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[Dmhccs]

Sadly, I have to agree. My experience so far with a reasonably good dealer - a car identical to my order, down to the color appeared on their lot. So exact I checked the VIN just to make sure! The only difference? The one on the lot was $5K more. The car has now since sold at a nice markup, presumably not to someone who has been waiting a year for their car. If this had been Tesla, I believe they would have gone to people waiting for similar cars (at least, that is what I have heard happening). There is just no incentive for the dealers to handle it that way. I expect this will end up getting better as wait times reduce, but the baggage of the dealer model is going to hamper Ford's ability to innovate and try new things (look at how clueless the dealers are on Ford Options).

The MME I test drove at a dealership had a $10k ADM! When I asked the salesperson to clarify they would not assess an ADM on cars ordered, I couldn’t get a straight answer until after I left.

 

[Jimmy2]

I’ve read all of these horror stories about experiences at dealerships and agree having experienced some of them myself (actually recently where a member of this forum was unable to take his ordered car which just happened to be the EXACT car I ordered; long story short - he was going to get it with X-Plan but when I wanted to buy it at X-Plan they said “no” and tacked on $3,000 ADM). Back to my point, although the dealership model is flawed for many reasons, what about service for our cars? If I owned a Tesla I would be in a real bind to get the car serviced because there aren’t any Tesla dealers around where I live. Contrast this to Ford where there are thousands of dealers and you can always find somewhere to get your car serviced. In my personal situation, I can literally walk 15 minutes to my dealer and when I have service if I don’t want to wait I can walk home. I hate going to Sales/Showroom but love the Service Department which gets consistent 5 stars on evaluation. With no dealers, however, we would all be in a bind when it came time to service our Mach E’s. Just my $0.02.

I agree. Advantage to Ford for its dealer network. If you were like me, you made your buying decision on line when you placed your reservation. No contact with the dealer was necessary until the time I decided to pull the trigger on converting the reservation to the order, then only limited contact. Price already agreed to, no ADM. So next step for me was to focus on X-Plan. If you own Ford stock or are member of Mustang Club, no problem. Email Ford and get your PIN, no dealer involvement. So now you know dealer can not take advantage on excessive doc prep charge.
I suppose you still have to endure the sale closing encounter, but I'll just have to put on my big-boy pants for that. If I run into problems after delivery, its nice to know the dealership service dept. is just right down the street.

Regarding lack of charging networks, I'll repeat what we all already know: Its gonna get better and better as more folks go electric, and sooner rather than later. Also most charging will be done at home; as we sleep the MMe charges up.

 

[JonathanEzor]

I'm okay with my local dealership, from which I've purchased a number of cars over the years, but i don't *need* a dealer to purchase a car. Why I prefer Ford over Tesla, though, is the entire century+-of-experience automotive manufacturer infrastructure, allowing scale, proper tolerances (and quick fixes if a subcontractor gets them wrong), parts supplies, detailed partnerships with other companies, etc. Car building is not easy (ask Tucker, or DeLorean, or Musk for that matter), and whatever the failings of car dealerships in general or Ford dealerships in particular, the dealership sales experience is one-time-only, but we have to drive (and fix, and rely on) our vehicles for years, in all sorts of situations. {Jonathan}

 

[Illinibird]

I agree. Advantage to Ford for its dealer network. If you were like me, you made your buying decision on line when you placed your reservation. No contact with the dealer was necessary until the time I decided to pull the trigger on converting the reservation to the order, then only limited contact. Price already agreed to, no ADM. So next step for me was to focus on X-Plan. If you own Ford stock or are member of Mustang Club, no problem. Email Ford and get your PIN, no dealer involvement. So now you know dealer can not take advantage on excessive doc prep charge.
I suppose you still have to endure the sale closing encounter, but I'll just have to put on my big-boy pants for that. If I run into problems after delivery, its nice to know the dealership service dept. is just right down the street.

Regarding lack of charging networks, I'll repeat what we all already know: Its gonna get better and better as more folks go electric, and sooner rather than later. Also most charging will be done at home; as we sleep the MMe charges up.

BTW - I DID NOT order my Mach E online with a reservation. Rather, I ordered it at my dealer at X-Plan pricing (once I found a dealer willing to accept X-Plan; the first 3 I tried wouldn’t). I do wish I had followed what most people did by making a reservation because I think Ford must be giving them preference over ordered cars as far as when they are manufactured and the amount of communication received.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I do wish I had followed what most people did by making a reservation because I think Ford must be giving them preference over ordered cars as far as when they are manufactured and the amount of communication received.

Nope. There are people with cars in their hands ir close to delivery that either had reservations or placed no Rez orders well after my early 2020 order. Mine was produced 2/10 and is scheduled for delivery in May.

 

[engnrng]

Sadly, I have to agree. My experience so far with a reasonably good dealer - a car identical to my order, down to the color appeared on their lot. So exact I checked the VIN just to make sure! The only difference? The one on the lot was $5K more. The car has now since sold at a nice markup, presumably not to someone who has been waiting a year for their car. If this had been Tesla, I believe they would have gone to people waiting for similar cars (at least, that is what I have heard happening). There is just no incentive for the dealers to handle it that way. I expect this will end up getting better as wait times reduce, but the baggage of the dealer model is going to hamper Ford's ability to innovate and try new things (look at how clueless the dealers are on Ford Options).

"No incentive..." According to the GM at my dealership that is not true. Ford has a requirement that over 70% of all Mach E pre-orders must be converted (sold to and picked up by original orderer) or they lose big time with Ford going forward. It may be that some dealers are more arrogant or ignorant than others. So far, my dealer has converted 2 out of 3, so is below the 70%, but with a total of 11 pre-orders, he still has a chance to maintain a good relationship with Ford. Maybe some dealers will be surprised in a few months because they are not paying attention now.

 

[BDC]

"No incentive..." According to the GM at my dealership that is not true. Ford has a requirement that over 70% of all Mach E pre-orders must be converted (sold to and picked up by original orderer) or they lose big time with Ford going forward. It may be that some dealers are more arrogant or ignorant than others. So far, my dealer has converted 2 out of 3, so is below the 70%, but with a total of 11 pre-orders, he still has a chance to maintain a good relationship with Ford. Maybe some dealers will be surprised in a few months because they are not paying attention now.

That's actually very interesting, but sadly proves my point. Not only is there no incentive to pass cars on to the next person in line, there is an *explicit* disincentive to do it! Take a case like mine: 2 people preorder essentially the same car (down to the color). Car A comes in, but person A decides they don't want it. Ding for the dealership, they didn't convert. Now they call person B and offer the car to them. Person B agrees to take it (with or without ADM), but now person B's car comes in, which of course they don't take since they already bought car A. Now they are at 100% failed conversions! So it is actually harmful for them to sell the car to the next person in line, if they even have a way of finding out who the next person in line is. I suppose if they had a way of informing Ford that the swap happened, then maybe it would be neutral.

 

[breeves002]

I am in agreement and disagreement with OP. There are advantages to both (at least today). tl;dr below.

Tesla still has dealerships technically, but yes sales are pretty much unrelated most of the time.

I agree Ford should not allow dealers to do this BS of marking up vehicles or added fees. One of the issues with dealers is new cars have very little markup compared to used and it is hard to make money without those extra fees, etc...

My local dealer, Lou Fusz Ford made me angry about 2 things with the purchase of my MME. It was on the lot and they were not asking markup, just MSRP. I wouldn't have bought it if they wanted markup. It literally showed up and I told them I wanted it but I was not financing and it takes me about 3 business days to pull money from my savings to pay for the car. The manager said he wouldn't hold it (even with $3k CC deposit) because they make more money if someone finances it. I was livid. I said I would cancel move my already ordered MME to another dealer and not bring my vehicles for service there anymore. I've used this dealer for 6 years and purchased 2 cars from them. I was seriously pissed off. The salesman called me back later and said they'd sell it to me for a larger deposit...so I went back and paid that.

Final paperwork comes in and they tacked on a $699.95 fee for "fusz guard". Its a BS package that is basically spray wax they sell as paint protectant, etc. What a rip off. I was so mad but they wouldn't budge. Rightfully so - they had me by the balls - they'd sell this car the next day if I didn't buy it...so I paid for it. Left a good review for the salesperson as she was great, but ranted about the manager and fusz guard.

I digress.....Tesla's model is nice for buying but SUCKS for everything else. These are rants from model x ownership the past 3 years. Their customer service post purchase is absolute garbage. Especially from a leasing standpoint. Service is horrible, parts is horrible, email customer service is absolutely horrible. At least Ford answers the phone when I call and will talk to me face to face. At Tesla you can't show the service advisor what's wrong with the car. You tell them over the phone when they call you a week later. They also won't even let you drop your lease off in person to turn it in. You have to take pictures on this horrible web app that doesn't even register an HEIC. So people who have no idea how to change file formats on their iPhone pictures just can't do it. You email them and ask if you can just turn it in and they don't reply. Email again and 2 days later they say "oh no, you have to do it this way".

Service at Tesla doesn't call you back a year into ownership when your 12vb dies after an update the night before. Takes 5 days to get the car back from a 12vb replacement. Insane and unacceptable. Ford would have it fixed same day you dropped it off for something that simple.

So my point is - dealership model sucks from a sales standpoint...but for everything else its better. Having individual places manage their service and parts departments works so much better.


tl;dr - I like my Ford dealer but they made me mad buying my MME. Tesla's post purchase customer service "dealership" experience is garbage because its managed by Tesla corporate.

 

[mburtsvt]

Dealers need to get the message. There is very little value they can add to a commodity. When customer understand that a $500 up sell product that only cost the dealer $100 that they will add to the finance and pay for it over 5 years will actually cost the customer $700 will no longer fly.

 

[ab13]

In Germany, VW will use a broker method to sell ID cars.
https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com...ners-agree-new-sales-model-for-id-family-6042

The main issue today is the limited supply since the vehicle just started production. The other issue is that standard car dealers sell on commission mostly, Tesla does not provide much commision now, apparently only for in stock vehicles. So sales methods will vary, depending on who you work with, and how much other local competition there is.

 

[waldo1949]

Ford needs to find a way to get themselves away from the dealership model. That is their Achilles heel. They need need to start doing direct transaction with customers as Telsa does.

Here is my story/situation and what I experienced recently.

I currently own a Tesla Model 3 and have a leased Ford Focus Electric. I have a Mache on order, which should be arriving soon.. My lease is ending soon, and my buyout is low. It seems that there is some positive equity in the leased vehicle that I would like to get.

First thing, Ford doesn't allow trade-in/Sell their leases to 3rd party dealers which most of other manufacturers do. So that being out of the question, I decided to buyout the focus electric and then sell it as I don't want to pay the disposition fee when I can walk away with some money out of this. I am already loosing the state tax by not being able to sell it directly to other dealership.

Ford also doesn't allow buyout of the vehicle directly from them. They ask us to go through the dealerships(stealerships). Now I am far from the original dealer I got the car from, so ford told me to contact any local dealer to buyout the vehicle.

I contacted my closest dealer and they said they can help me with this and I would just need to fill up a Credit Application even though it was all cash buyout. I was skeptical to provide my SSN, but asked them to make sure not to pull the credit. I made the appointment to come to the dealership to buyout and to start with, the person who I talking to was not even there. I emailed him last night to confirm that I will be coming in. He even told me to come in day time to allow inspection and I need to drop it at the service first. So after some time they send me to a different person, who kept on looking for my file. Eventually he finds it and started working on it. It took almost an hour for him to get it papers ready.

One good thing I was to test drive Mache ca route 1 while I was waiting for all this. It is super nice to drive, it doesn't have the pull/acceleration of my Tesla Model 3, but it it way better fit and finish. The road noise is so low compared to my tesla.

After the test drive I noticed, there was a notice board with all the Mache listed that they have or coming for sale with all of them marked up +3K. I mean it a good car, but come on it would gladly get a model y than to pay these dealers this markup. On top of it, this is the same dealer who told me when I was planning to order the Mache that the $500 deposit is non-refundable. I ordered from another dealer. So if they did not refund the customers who ordered these maches from this dealership, they are basically making $3500 on top of MSRP for each one of them. That is where Tesla works well. You know what you are going to pay and not have to deal with middle man. There was a customer there who was interested in the mache and was inquiring about it. They told him, that there is 3k markup on each. So he asked if that would be the case if he ordered online and they said it won't be but they might not get the car till next year. They are trying all their tactics to gouge more money. That person if cross shopping with model y, would just go back home and order it online and get it in a months time without dealing with all this.

Enough of that, coming back to my lease buyout. After a long wait for the finance manager, we go in to buyout my car and while signing the documents I see the total amount due, which was way higher than the payoff balance from Ford Financial. I knew that I would be paying taxes( which is again unnecessary if they allowed selling to third party) but it still did not add up. I asked the manager for the breakdown, and in there i see a $395 inspection fee. I was shocked to see that. When asked what was that, he said let me get the leasing person back to explain it to me.

That persons comes in and tells me it a California requirement. I stated looking into on my phone immediately and did not find anything like that. Then the finance manager comes back and tells me that this the fee for inspecting the car and check if everything is good. I was like, it is my car and I know everything works. He started showing me that he is working here for 17 years and this is common practice. I was still not convinced. I asked him is this same for every dealership? He said it may be little different. I was not even told once about this fee till that last step. I told him to wait till i call my original dealer and ask them about it. When I asked them they were confused about inspection fee and said that they don't charge that. I was on the speaker it front of that manager and he heard that. I told him, why should I pay this fee and it is not even required. So the person lied by saying it a California requirement. I made sure he shreds all the paperwork before I left the dealership. So I wasted my 2 hours there for nothing.

The problem is, why doesn't Ford financial allow me to buy it from them directly? These dealerships are there to rip-off people.

After that I called few other dealers around in the area and 50% of them were asking for $400 to $500 in different names. Either as "Acquisition Fees" or "buying option Fees". It is clearly stated on my original contract that there is no fee associated if I buy it at the term end.

What I am getting at is that I wish Ford would start transitioning away from dealers and start have more direct relations with customers like allowing buyout directly.

It is good that they allowed ordering mache directly from ford, but they should have changed it a bit. Say for example, it a buyer backs out they should have given an option to any new reservation holder with the same model living in same area to get that vehicle. If no existing reservation holder claims it for a week then allow dealership to sell it. A lot more people would have bought Mache if they would have done it differently. I am sure I would not have found 5 Maches in that dealer lot if it was sold to people waiting for it at the MSRP. Demand is high, but these practices might turn people away from a great car.

This just happened, so I apologize for the rant.

Each, if you don’t like dealerships, why get so heavily involved in complicated deals. My process was seamless. We agreed and wrote down the price, Ford subsequently lowered their price, so the dealer did too. They made a straightforward offer on my car which I accepted. Done.
I will never, ever lease a car.

 

[milepost1]

Honestly it's not the dealer experience that worries me, that's a one-time thing.

It's the DC Fast Charging. There's no way they can compete when they haven't even bothered to fix the huge issues and slow speeds due to lack of preconditioning. I am NOT happy when I plug in my "150 kW" vehicle and get 36 kW because the pack is chilly. It's 2021, random people on Facebook know batteries don't like being cold... why doesn't Ford?

100% agree. the 2 biggest issues EV's trying to overcome charging time and charging availability. To make charging even slower because the battery is cold or hot seems crazy. The 2 things Tesla excels at. great charging network and keeping battery conditioned. Tesla is more concerned with battery than occupants. in the manual even states may not be as warm in cabin if battery needs more heat.

 

[ab13]

I’m headed into the den today to complete my sale - wish me luck! I’m coming prepared with....
1. Pricing sheet from my salesman with the VIN and all charges and discounts listed (MSRP, minus xplan discount, minus options rebates, plus $100 doc fee, tax, deposit, balance owed).
2. Ford Options program codes for the APR and bonus cash.
3. My little one-page checklist of inspection and setup items.

Let me know if I need to be prepared with anything else!

Good luck. Have a print out of any accessories pricing if you are looking at those items, so you know the pricing.

 

[SteelMach]

100% agree. the 2 biggest issues EV's trying to overcome charging time and charging availability. To make charging even slower because the battery is cold or hot seems crazy. The 2 things Tesla excels at. great charging network and keeping battery conditioned. Tesla is more concerned with battery than occupants. in the manual even states may not be as warm in cabin if battery needs more heat.

I will gladly sacrifice my own comfort for faster charging. If Ford isn't willing to be so bold as to make that decision like Tesla does, at least give me a toggle on the seventeen pages of settings menus that lets me confirm I'll take less heat to have shorter charge stops.

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