wareagle1440
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Clay
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2021
- Threads
- 9
- Messages
- 167
- Reaction score
- 235
- Location
- Denver, CO
- Vehicles
- 2017 Mini Countryman & 2021 Mach E Ex.R. AWD
- Occupation
- Civil Plaintiff's Attorney
- Thread starter
- #1
The number of charging stations does not greatly affect the loading on the grid in a direct way. You don't buy more gas because there are more gas stations!So one question I have is how are we expecting 500k charging stations to get powered? We might need to reassess our attitude towards nuclear energy. Otherwise we're not going to get away from coal, natural gas, and other fossil fuels for the main driver of electricity production. From what I've read France makes incredibly reliable and safe nuclear reactors. I know there would be a lot of fear and pushback on that solution though. Just don't know if wind and solar, with today's tech could handle the load.
I agree under the current infrastructure, renewable sources like wind and solar cannot replace a source like nuclear. However I think there are creative technologies for hydropower being developed to retrofit non energy producing damns into energy producing facilities (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032119304575).So one question I have is how are we expecting 500k charging stations to get powered? We might need to reassess our attitude towards nuclear energy. Otherwise we're not going to get away from coal, natural gas, and other fossil fuels for the main driver of electricity production. From what I've read France makes incredibly reliable and safe nuclear reactors. I know there would be a lot of fear and pushback on that solution though. Just don't know if wind and solar, with today's tech could handle the load.
Unfortunately it does create far more demand and loading: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...adiators-push-norway-power-use-to-record-highThe number of charging stations does not greatly affect the loading on the grid in a direct way. You don't buy more gas because there are more gas stations!
The load is determined by the number of cars out there and their utilization. More convenient access to charging stations would increase utilization somewhat and speed up adoption of EVs, thus indirectly increasing the load.
Your point is a valid one, but should be framed in context of "how do we power X million EVs going forward".
I couldn't get all the way through the article before I got kicked out for not being a subscriber. But it seemed that proliferation of charging stations was not named as the culprit in the part I could read. It cited "Electrifying everything..." as the reason for record electric power use.Unfortunately it does create far more demand and loading: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...adiators-push-norway-power-use-to-record-high
Good point on the waste factor and time to build. I'm full solar so I know how well solar solutions work. I also wasn't considering Maquis' point that yeah there might be 500k chargers out there but they are not going to be drawing power simultaneously so 'maybe' the hit on the grid isn't as much of an impact as I had in my head.I agree under the current infrastructure, renewable sources like wind and solar cannot replace a source like nuclear. However I think there are creative technologies for hydropower being developed to retrofit non energy producing damns into energy producing facilities (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032119304575).
Additionally there is ridiculous potential capacity for wind and solar and just last year, the wind industry gained another 4% in growth in new infrastructure over the year before (https://www.evwind.es/2020/08/15/th...-capacity-in-the-second-quarter-of-2020/76531). One of the more interesting areas of growth in solar is the agrivoltaic movement. (https://agsci.oregonstate.edu/newsroom/sustainable-farm-agrivoltaic).
While nuclear definitely produces steady and safe energy in its production, it also produces waste that can have ridiculously long half-lives and that waste has to go somewhere. Also I believe it takes about 10 years or more to build a nuclear plant, and in that time you could also build tons of new renewable energy infrastructure.
Yes! Nuclear needs to be an option, and the public needs to be less afraid of it. Most of our U.S. nuclear power plants are really old and based on ancient designs. Newer plants can be smaller, cheaper, more decentralized, and safer. If nuclear isn't in our renewable power portfolio, we'll have a tough time scaling up.So one question I have is how are we expecting 500k charging stations to get powered? We might need to reassess our attitude towards nuclear energy. Otherwise we're not going to get away from coal, natural gas, and other fossil fuels for the main driver of electricity production. From what I've read France makes incredibly reliable and safe nuclear reactors. I know there would be a lot of fear and pushback on that solution though. Just don't know if wind and solar, with today's tech could handle the load.
Here was the oft that got cut off:I couldn't get all the way through the article before I got kicked out for not being a subscriber. But it seemed that proliferation of charging stations was not named as the culprit in the part I could read. It cited "Electrifying everything..." as the reason for record electric power use.
Thanks!Here was the oft that got cut off:
“ The country’s love of electric cars won worldwide fame through a Super Bowl ad starring Will Ferrel, but electricity is also the dominant source for heating in Norway. Power is used to warm as much as 85% of all indoor spaces which compares to Sweden where district-heating is the major source.
This has contributed to Norway having the second-highest power consumption per capita in the world, according to the World Bank, only beaten by Iceland. The country expects to keep consuming more with the thirst for power set to grow 30% by 2040.”
Great insight, thanks for sharing. Your last comment really resonates with me. CA's interstate routes (I-5, 8, 10, 50,80, Rte 99, Rte 58) are rife for opportunistic investment to support EVs from passenger to long haul trucking. The current level of local generation, distribution, and network scheduled services to support even a small fraction of current traffic levels is appalling. With all the recent mid to high market, mid to longish range platforms dropping the trickle is going to become a flood.I'm a Mach E owner and have worked in the power industry for 20 years. Scaling up additional power generation for EV demand won't be a problem. The industry has lots of capacity to build new combined cycle plants (natural gas), wind turbines and solar.
There is plenty of capacity for nuclear as well, but regulations and politics are the barriers. 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl aren't the reason for recent nuclear avoidance. The Tsunami induced failure at the Fukushima plant turned off the nuclear spigot worldwide. Too bad they built the plant on the coast and installed the emergency generators below sea level.
Back to the point: Even today the power industry has lots excess capacity most of the time. It is the peak times (mid day, hottest day of the year) that stresses the grid. The utilities LOVE nighttime EV charging since they have tons of extra capacity at night. The problem is still 10+ years out, and it will get solved between now and then.
There is sooooo much money at stake, so it will be fun to see how the gas station/convenience store market evolves in the next 20 years.