New Jersey is plugged in!

[zhackwyatt]

For my purposes, that would actually be sufficient 98% of the time. We're retired, and the vehicles usually sit in the garage for at least 15 hours overnight (and some days don't get used at all). Adding at least 45 miles each night should be plenty to cover our typical needs.

But I'll likely go ahead and install 240V in the garage anyway. While it should be very rare, I'd want the ability to fill it to 100% if I'm planning a lengthy drive the next day (although we'd probably just use the ICE vehicle for that anyway).

Often what happens to me is I'm running around town and then my non-lengthy drives turn into more lengthy-drives w/o planning.

But I guess if you can always keep it near full you can absorb those unexpected things and recover in 1 or 2 days of not driving it.

Sponsored

 

[zhackwyatt]

Ford has stated on the c max about 7 hours, never has a full charge taken longer than, at most 5 hours on the 120 line.......so if the mme is similar, and I drive to a few stores, run a trip to home depot + , I'll put 20-25 miles on the car.........to keep the charge full, a few hours, very do-able for me.......I understand that for those of us putting on 100 miles a day, you have a different situation.....and yesterday I did a complete charge in the c max, took less than 5 hours, 32 miles when complete.....yes I do also understand, that the mileage after charging is based on your driving styles.....again, for me the 120 will work......once I gave a complete charge, it shouldn't be a problem to maintain a full charge based on my driving distances......when it becomes an issue, I'll upgrade to 240.....each of us is in a different situation, and remember I''m retired so less required driving by a long shot.....take care

Just making sure "eyes are open". Just FYI, I wouldn't use the C-Max as any kind of baromter. The battery was air cooled and tend to degrade a lot. So the quicker charging time may be due to loss of capacity. My C-Max is a hybrid (non-energi) version so I'm only going by what I have read.

 

[c max]

Just making sure "eyes are open". Just FYI, I wouldn't use the C-Max as any kind of baromter. The battery was air cooled and tend to degrade a lot. So the quicker charging time may be due to loss of capacity. My C-Max is a hybrid (non-energi) version so I'm only going by what I have read.

I have just under 36,000 miles on my 2013 c max, easy miles, a few trips "down the shore" as we say here in NJ,...... I've not seen any degrading of the battery and/or loss of capacity, of course that may be due to my lack of knowledge, haha.....and because of my driving style, if the car says 32 miles on it, I can usually get that distance (assuming no AC, heat or defrost, which all has an effect on miles)

 

[timbop]

First, after all these months reading posts by timbop, I finally have to say, your picture, of what I assume is your dog....

Yes, she was a sweetheart. Unfortunately she developed liver cancer and we had to put her down in December 2019. I keep her picture as a reminder of what a great dog she was. Below is a picture of the one that joined our family in late February; she loves to sleep on her back and this time her tongue was hanging out:

 

[c max]

Yes, she was a sweetheart. Unfortunately she developed liver cancer and we had to put her down in December 2019. I keep her picture as a reminder of what a great dog she was. Below is a picture of the one that joined our family in late February; she loves to sleep on her back and this time her tongue was hanging out:

Sweetheart is how I would describe my dog too.......seeing her brings back memories for you, and when I see your picture, it brings back memories for me......I had a black lab that would sleep on her back, too.......great picture.....

 

[timbop]

Oh, and speaking of the Mach E - it is a bit of a catch-22 with depreciation an unknown and the $7500 going away some time in 2022. If you buy the car now, in 5 or 6 years' time there will likely be a significant improvement in battery range and charging - which will kill resale value. The $7500 helps with that, but probably not completely. On the other hand the Ford options thing (48 month lease-like financing) covers you if resale value is in the toilet or other major issues crop up with the car, but the $7500 evaporates as well. If all goes well and you do buy it after the options lease is up, you'll pay thousands more than you would have if you'd just outright financed it.

 

[dbsb3233]

Often what happens to me is I'm running around town and then my non-lengthy drives turn into more lengthy-drives w/o planning.

But I guess if you can always keep it near full you can absorb those unexpected things and recover in 1 or 2 days of not driving it.

Yep, that would be the issue -- if there's multiple days in a row where I'd need 100+ miles. I'll easily be able to keep it at 80% each night most of the time on 120V. And that's plenty for a single "high" day of ~100 miles. And probably even two in a row (adding 45 overnight). But not 3+ days in a row.

But again, we still have the ICE car as backup anyway. I suppose we have overkill with vehicles now. 2 people, 2 vehicles, both retired. We could easily go down to a single vehicle with only minor inconvenience. And we probably should (it's kind of a waste of money now). But we're in our early 60's and old habits are hard to break. It just doesn't seem right not to each have a vehicle available after going our whole lives with one each. Don't wanna give up that freedom and maximum flexibility.

BEVs definitely require more planning. Especially without a backup vehicle handy.

 

[dbsb3233]

Oh, and speaking of the Mach E - it is a bit of a catch-22 with depreciation an unknown and the $7500 going away some time in 2022. If you buy the car now, in 5 or 6 years' time there will likely be a significant improvement in battery range and charging - which will kill resale value. The $7500 helps with that, but probably not completely. On the other hand the Ford options thing (48 month lease-like financing) covers you if resale value is in the toilet or other major issues crop up with the car, but the $7500 evaporates as well. If all goes well and you do buy it after the options lease is up, you'll pay thousands more than you would have if you'd just outright financed it.

$7500 in resale value should disappear the moment you drive it off the lot (on a purchase). Only the initial buyer gets that. Same with state rebates, although I suppose one might be able to take advantage of that by buying in a high rebate state like NJ and sell it in a no-rebate state.

But as you say, fast-improving batteries should tank resale value pretty quickly anyway. I sure wouldn't be buying any BEV based on resale value. Some might hold up if the circumstances are right, but I wouldn't count on it.

On a related note... it wouldn't surprise me if a new federal tax credit for BEVs comes along in a few years. Or perhaps a modified extension of the existing one. While I think it's good that they included a sunset clause, it has created a massive differential between, say, Ford and GM. It almost doesn't make sense for GM to release new BEVs now until Ford uses up their credits. Same with Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hyundia, Chrysler, etc. You're at a distinct disadvantage to sell BEVs until your main competitors burn through their credits.

 

[dbsb3233]

What I am curious about is whether it's any better/worse for battery longevity to recharge faster on L2 vs slower on L1? Or are they both slow enough that it's really about the same?

It's pretty well established that frequent L3 charging is most harmful to battery longevity. And I've generally heard that slow trickle charges are the best. But L1 is also going to happen more frequently, like every night vs maybe 2-3 times/week on L2.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

What I am curious about is whether it's any better/worse for battery longevity to recharge faster on L2 vs slower on L1? Or are they both slow enough that it's really about the same?

It's pretty well established that frequent L3 charging is most harmful to battery longevity. And I've generally heard that slow trickle charges are the best. But L1 is also going to happen more frequently, like every night vs maybe 2-3 times/week on L2.

You can get L2 charger that have a selectable Amp outout, so you could set it on a low 16 Amp if that's what you need and if you need to set it for exemple at 40 Amp for faster charging then that is what you use.

 

[dbsb3233]

You can get L2 charger that have a selectable Amp outout, so you could set it on a low 16 Amp if that's what you need and if you need to set it for exemple at 40 Amp for faster charging then that is what you use.

Interesting. That would add even another layer to the whole equation. I suppose we could call that L1.5.

I probably wouldn't do that unless there's some good evidence that it's significantly better for the battery than regular L2 though. I already have 120V in the garage. The main advantage would be not going through the expense of installing a 240V outlet. If there's strong evidence that slower is significantly better for the battery, I'd probably just stick with 120V L1.

 

[zhackwyatt]

I have just under 36,000 miles on my 2013 c max, easy miles, a few trips "down the shore" as we say here in NJ,...... I've not seen any degrading of the battery and/or loss of capacity, of course that may be due to my lack of knowledge, haha.....and because of my driving style, if the car says 32 miles on it, I can usually get that distance (assuming no AC, heat or defrost, which all has an effect on miles)

I think it tended to be more of a temperature issue than usage because it was not liquid cooled like the Mach-E and Teslas. The first leaf had bad problems too since it was only air cooled.

 

[zhackwyatt]

Yes, she was a sweetheart. Unfortunately she developed liver cancer and we had to put her down in December 2019. I keep her picture as a reminder of what a great dog she was. Below is a picture of the one that joined our family in late February; she loves to sleep on her back and this time her tongue was hanging out:

Like my dog

 

[dbsb3233]

I did find this one analysis, that surprisingly shows L1 charging is slightly worse for battery health than L2. But only slightly. And I have to wonder if it might be skewed by the selection of vehicles that tend to use L1 (often older vehicles like Leafs). I doubt many of the newer, bigger-battery BEVs are charged with L1 much.

https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/

 

[c max]

I did find this one analysis, that surprisingly shows L1 charging is slightly worse for battery health than L2. But only slightly. And I have to wonder if it might be skewed by the selection of vehicles that tend to use L1 (often older vehicles like Leafs). I doubt many of the newer, bigger-battery BEVs are charged with L1 much.

https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/

I have to admit I am truly lacking compared to the knowledge that some of you have......when I bought the c max, I did some research but what some of you know makes me feel like a newbee.........when reading some of the c max forum comments I felt the same.......to be honest, I don't know from air cooled to liquid cooled.......I learn a lot of info at these 2 forums, but it can be confusing........all I know is, if I drive my c max energi today, I come home and charge it and have done that for the last 7 years.......I have not noticed any degrading and/or loss of capacity, ( in fact, this time of year I regularly get 30+ miles on the "big" battery, and yes,, this is a product of driving habits, factored in by the computer)again this might be due to ignorance on my part......please bear with me and others who may not know what you guys do.....keep the info coming....take care