Home charging data after 1,110 miles.

[Blackbluff]

That's great, but I couldn't get past this line. The initial capital outlay is what it's all about, making it anything but "free". Hard just to discount that. It's kinda like saying "Discounting the $59,000 I paid for the car, it's free now!".

Sorry, that part just struck me as funny.

Just being honest about this. I don't know of anything that is entirely 'free'. The government has and will find a way to get some tax or fee off everything we use. But, I still like my set up and feel freedom to go and not be hampered by fuel shortage, price or other regulations.

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[dbsb3233]

Just being honest about this. I don't know of anything that is entirely 'free'. The government has and will find a way to get some tax or fee off everything we use. But, I still like my set up and feel freedom to go and not be hampered by fuel shortage, price or other regulations.

Oh sure. I wasn't trying to knock getting solar, or your setup. It was just the way that passage was worded that I get hung up on. Just like the car, it's not free, it's just prepaid for in a lump sum up front. That major cost can't be discounted in the equation.

 

[dtbaker61]

I have only charged at home only on solar. I don't have any free chargers close to me but like I said, only plan to charge at home unless I take a trip longer than 270 miles.

runnin on sunshine/wind is a lot better than coal or nuclear in my book....

my rooftop Solar energy cost me about $0.05/kWhr (net cost/total production for 25 mfg parts+labor warranteed years) so that's a pretty sweet deal.

 

[Mopey]

Installed solar system late last year and having fun chasing the sun. Discounting initial capital outlay for the system, really enjoying free sun provided power. Able to charge the car for free. The car is about one month in our possession but it is the beast. So much fun to go by ICE fueling stations and get my utility bill each month.

Your 8 panel array is going to output ~2400 watts\hr, not counting DC\AC conversion loss. If you have a 32amp wall unit, your car will be using ~7500 watts\hr. Depending on how your system is designed, if you want to ensure only your own solar generated electricity is powering your car, you will need to use a 120v wall unit plugged into a 20amp outlet. Sure, you can count on excess power sold to the electric company to offset the cost of purchasing the extra power your wall unit is supplying, but since most power companies only pay you ~1/3 of the Kwh price they charge you when you buy from them, you will need to export 3 times as much solar generated power to offset the price difference.
I've had to dial down the amperage of my 48A Ford Wall Charger to make sure my FE uses only as much power as my 7kw solar array can produce. If I need a fast charge I just temporarily, manually reset the wall units output.

 

[dtbaker61]

Oh sure. I wasn't trying to knock getting solar, or your setup. It was just the way that passage was worded that I get hung up on. Just like the car, it's not free, it's just prepaid for in a lump sum up front. That major cost can't be discounted in the equation.

true that.... solar energy is NOT 'free'; but rather best expressed as the net cost after all tax credits / warranteed energy production. cheap solar panels typically only have 10 yr warranty which lots of people forget when they go for the low bid. Much better to go for the 'premium' panels with 25 year parts and labor warranty.

I'd estimate that in most markets around the US, the 'true' cost of rooftop solar energy is probably around $.05-$.07/kWhr, which translates to lets say $0.02/mile in the average EV.

The other cost that many EV drivers choose to ignore is the amortized cost of batteries, which really are 'consumable'... If you take approximate 'replacement cost' of the battery pack/ expect warranted miles it becomes clear that cost is more significant than the energy.... on the order of $8000/100,000 = $0.08/mile

NOW you have some numbers to compare....
$.10 / mile for an EV running on sunshine, approximately.....

so, assuming the 'equivalent' ICE would get 25 miles/gallon, at $3/gallon, in a ICE Mustang for instance, the 'fuel cost' on the ICE side is more like $3/25 =
$.12 / mile
or, maybe a little more if you fold in the higher cost of maintenance for ICE engine and oil changes which is not insignificant over 100k miles. ie $50 just for oil every 5k miles with no other repairs is $1000 or so just for oil!

....so , yes, running on your own sunshine in the EV is less expensive, but really only when gas is over about $2.75/gallon if you consider batteries to be consumable.

 

[dbsb3233]

true that.... solar energy is NOT 'free'; but rather best expressed as the net cost after all tax credits / warranteed energy production. cheap solar panels typically only have 10 yr warranty which lots of people forget when they go for the low bid. Much better to go for the 'premium' panels with 25 year parts and labor warranty.

I'd estimate that in most markets around the US, the 'true' cost of rooftop solar energy is probably around $.05-$.07/kWhr, which translates to lets say $0.02/mile in the average EV.

The other cost that many EV drivers choose to ignore is the amortized cost of batteries, which really are 'consumable'... If you take approximate 'replacement cost' of the battery pack/ expect warranted miles it becomes clear that cost is more significant than the energy.... on the order of $8000/100,000 = $0.08/mile

NOW you have some numbers to compare....
$.10 / mile for an EV running on sunshine, approximately.....

so, assuming the 'equivalent' ICE would get 25 miles/gallon, at $3/gallon, in a ICE Mustang for instance, the 'fuel cost' on the ICE side is more like $3/25 =
$.12 / mile
or, maybe a little more if you fold in the higher cost of maintenance for ICE engine and oil changes which is not insignificant over 100k miles. ie $50 just for oil every 5k miles with no other repairs is $1000 or so just for oil!

....so , yes, running on your own sunshine in the EV is less expensive, but really only when gas is over about $2.75/gallon if you consider batteries to be consumable.

Yep, there's just a lot of variables that are different for each person's situation. Local tax breaks... local electric company rates... net metering rates... whether you can regularly charge during the sunshine vs at night... house sun exposure... how long you plan to be in the house... the state of your shingles... etc etc etc.

Last time I looked at the numbers for solar, it didn't save me anything (and I didn't want to take on the extra risk of failure/maintenance, and the hit to the look of the house, without a cost savings to justify it). We also live in a hail-prone area, so roof replacement (and the extra cost that would entail) is a consideration too. Although this last time we used a Class 4 shingle that should be better.

 

[dbsb3233]

but since most power companies only pay you ~1/3 of the Kwh price they charge you when you buy from them,

Yep, most of their cost is getting the electricity to your house, consistently and dependably, 24x7.

The wholesale cost of electricity is much lower that the delivered retail cost. Thus wholesale is the logical rate to use when buying any excess back from customers.

 

[crownmountain]

You're getting fantastic efficiency...my guess is that you're deciding not to show off too much when the red light turns green?

I have about 2,250 miles and am averaging close to 2.8 mi/kWh, but most of that is on the highway; either road-tripping or commuting. I'm not upset with that, as I knew higher speeds would do that.

To compare my stats with yours, after 2,250 miles I've spent $69 and consumed 910 kWh. That's 553 kWh at home ($0.11/kWh), 220 kWh from Electrify America (covered under my initial 250 kWh allowance), and about 137 kWh from free sources (public charging and various Level 1 plug-ins at the homes of family members).

However, the 910 kWh consumed is not the same as delivered. At home, I'm getting an average of 14% loss* between the meter and the battery (Level 2, ChargePoint 48A charging), and my EA charging appears to have about 6% loss*. so 910 kWh 'consumed' is probably closer to 800 kWh 'delivered'. This adds up, as my trip computer says I'm getting 2.8 mi/kWh so far.

* The losses are based on a comparison between the charger apps (which measure electricity consumed) vs. the FordPass app, which measures battery charge delivered. Unfortunately, the FordPass app doesn't show kWh delivered, so my calcs are probably a bit rough.

I should have added that, with a rare exception, this was all done in Engaged mode.

How are you computing your KWH of charging at home if you have a clipper creek "dumb" EVSE? Are you looking at the logs in FordPass? Be aware that FordPass ages out the older charging log entries, so unless you recorded them or have had your car for a short period not all the charging entries are there.

At 24A you're drawing 5.7kw, so after 38 hours the total kwh drawn from the grid is roughly 219kwh; assuming a charging loss of 5% to 15% that means you put between 186kwh and 208kwh into the car, so that 167kwh total seems low to me.

What I have been doing is taking the information on FordPass and recording it in a a spread sheet. Attempting to convert the percentage of charge to kWh. Agree hardly scientific. All the data is from the car and FordPass. Then I did make an eyeball guess at comparing the change in my power company usage reports which does approximate to what I used. As I indicated my total includes 22 kWh at an EA supercharger which is a good sign as your calculation and mine are quite close, mine is 189 total.

It appears that I failed to mention mine is a 2 wheel drive extended range. And while I don't plant my right foot often it seems I do pull away from everyone at the light.

Certainly open to suggestions on how to measure and track this.

 

[crownmountain]

Question: Of those using the Ford EVSE that comes with the car as a Level 2 charge does the car or the FordPass app give better data in the logs? As was pointed out my "dumb" but ultra reliable Clipper Creek EVSE can't tell me anything.

 

[dbsb3233]

Certainly open to suggestions on how to measure and track this.

The easiest way to track MPK (mi/kWh) over time is use one of the trip meters just for that. I'm using Trip2 as my lifetime MPK tracker. I'll reset Trip1 periodically but I leave Trip2 running all the time.

It's possible you might not have reset one or the other of the trip meters yet. If you haven't, check and see what MPK and miles it's showing.

FordPass isn't always dependable for logging every charge. My guess is you might be missing a few charge sessions in the total kWh, thus your actual MPK is probably under 4. That would still be good, but 5.8 just doesn't seem possible over time.

 

[dbsb3233]

Question: Of those using the Ford EVSE that comes with the car as a Level 2 charge does the car or the FordPass app give better data in the logs? As was pointed out my "dumb" but ultra reliable Clipper Creek EVSE can't tell me anything.

The FordPass logs don't care which charger you're using. It just logs the charge session from the car side. But FordPass being FordPass, it's not 100% dependable. I've gone back and checked and sometimes (rarely) it seems to miss logging some charge sessions altogether.

 

[crownmountain]

The easiest way to track MPK (mi/kWh) over time is use one of the trip meters just for that. I'm using Trip2 as my lifetime MPK tracker. I'll reset Trip1 periodically but I leave Trip2 running all the time.

It's possible you might not have reset one or the other of the trip meters yet. If you haven't, check and see what MPK and miles it's showing.

FordPass isn't always dependable for logging every charge. My guess is you might be missing a few charge sessions in the total kWh, thus your actual MPK is probably under 4. That would still be good, but 5.8 just doesn't seem possible over time.

Great call out. So went to the car and looked at the trip meter. Trip 1 shows 749.9 miles and 3.9 mi/kwh for 13 hours and 43 minutes of driving. Trip 2 is 739.6 miles at 3.7 kwh. Back to the spreadsheet to look at the calculation..

 

[dbsb3233]

Great call out. So went to the car and looked at the trip meter. Trip 1 shows 749.9 miles and 3.9 mi/kwh for 13 hours and 43 minutes of driving. Trip 2 is 739.6 miles at 3.7 kwh. Back to the spreadsheet to look at the calculation..

That sounds more plausible. 3.9 and 3.7 are still very good numbers, but more in line with the favorable type of driving you described. The ER battery is 88 kWh (usable). 3.9 x 88 = 343 miles of range.

 

[Blackbluff]

Your 8 panel array is going to output ~2400 watts\hr, not counting DC\AC conversion loss. If you have a 32amp wall unit, your car will be using ~7500 watts\hr. Depending on how your system is designed, if you want to ensure only your own solar generated electricity is powering your car, you will need to use a 120v wall unit plugged into a 20amp outlet. Sure, you can count on excess power sold to the electric company to offset the cost of purchasing the extra power your wall unit is supplying, but since most power companies only pay you ~1/3 of the Kwh price they charge you when you buy from them, you will need to export 3 times as much solar generated power to offset the price difference.
I've had to dial down the amperage of my 48A Ford Wall Charger to make sure my FE uses only as much power as my 7kw solar array can produce. If I need a fast charge I just temporarily, manually reset the wall units output.

That is a fraction of the panels for collecting sun. I have a total of 29 panels with a 10.2 KWh output at maximum collecting capacity. Having no problems in meeting needs now. Have not faced serious summer temps yet with A/C demands.

 

[dtbaker61]

Certainly open to suggestions on how to measure and track this.

If you really want to track consumption....you can install 3rd party metering on your whole house with a smart system like sense.com, or specific circuits with a less expensive system like efergy.com or equivalent.

You will find that the average use will be right around 1 kwhr per 3 miles, plus or minus for variables in temp, type of use, etc

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