PSA: Buy an Industrial 14-50 Receptacle

[ZuleMME]

UL won't let you pull 48A from a 14-50. Any 48a EVSEs are hardwired.

Sure it will, for a non continuous load (non EV). My point was you can't trust people that post a picture that says one thing and post words that say another.

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[Scooby24]

We can be philosophic all we want, but the reality is that the pictures don't tell us about the conductor size and installation and those are absolutely critical components of this discussion. That Tesla recommends "industrial grade" doesn't really mean anything about the real world. There are thousands and thousands of home EVSEs installed and running safely on "Commercial grade" hardware. A 45A breaker isn't even going to trip if the EVSE is load limiting to 40A continuous. It won't "feel" the heat on the receptacle side at all. If the conductors are heating enough to trip the 45A breaker then you have bigger problems than the receptacle because the conductors are overheating.

I know you're trying to be helpful, but I don't think a lot of folks are going to agree with this...and Tesla is the original exploding battery so their credibility is strained. LOL.

Time to take a step back and ask the question...why?

This isn't philosophic. It's electrical engineering. And the evidence is overwhelming.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/psa-check-your-charging-receptacle.3654/
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-e-tron-232/garage-outlet-burned-up-photo-3002749/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/psa-another-melted-nema-14-50-receptacle.126579/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/nema-14-50-meltdown.141286/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/pictures-of-melted-14-50r-a-reminder-to-be-careful.135287/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/burnt-nema-14-50-plug-and-breaker-tripped.137413/

 

[Scooby24]

Sure it will, for a non continuous load (non EV). My point was you can't trust people that post a picture that says one thing and post words that say another.

Where's the 48a EVSE that has a 14-50 connector?

 

[Scooby24]

OK you win. Feel better? You have way too much invested in this.

This isn't about feelings. It's about adequately selecting your electrical hardware for the use case to avoid a failure.

I'm sharing what the recommendations are from Tesla, Electricians and the evidence suggests all point to the same conclusion.

The resistance to that baffling. My investment in this was the right amount to ensure I properly spec'd my hardware. I'm trying to assist those that don't have enough invested in this.

 

[AzCoronaDog]

Being able to withstand sustained peak power is exactly what differentiates quality in outlets (that and connector plug cycling) The industrial grade receptacles have glass/ceramic insulators that are designed to withstand max amperage draw for extended periods of time. Commercial grades are not as their intended use have products that don't draw max amperage for sustained periods of time. This is EXACTLY why there are different grades of connectors.

https://www.seahurst.com/nema-14-50-tesla/

Your are needlessly spreading gross misinformation about receptacles and sustained power!

Please do some research, perhaps start here: https://iaeimagazine.org/features/receptacle-grades-what-do-they-mean/

If you do the research, you will find the actual written standard does not have a grade of "industrial", or "commercial", these are terms manufacturers have made up to supposedly denote their quality.

 

[All Hat No Cattle]

Always buy the Hubbell if your buying a MME or Telsa you can afford the extra $20 to know you have a quality product.

This seems to be the most rational post in response to Post #1.

You are buying a $50k vehicle, spending $1-2k +/- on installing a wall plug. $500 or so for a super-duper charger and you skimp on a $115 receptacle that should last for the life of the vehicle, at least?

You guys are smarter than that.

Thanks to the OP for the info.

https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-HBL9...ocphy=9030832&hvtargid=pla-1311433779482&th=1

 

[ZuleMME]

UL Listed is UL Listed. The end.

 

[Mach-Tony]

Always remember, forums are for discussions and should not be taken as facts... Do your own research and avoid anything posted in a forum when looking for facts.

 

[MG101]

Wow this forum...

It's not bad advice even if it is being delivered in a told you so, anecdotal kind of way. At the same time, everyone else needs to relax. Your choice of outlet does not define you as a person, it's ok.

I know we have electricians here. Where they at!??

 

[ZuleMME]

Wow this forum...

It's not bad advice even if it is being delivered in a told you so, anecdotal kind of way. At the same time, everyone else needs to relax. Your choice of outlet does not define you as a person, it's ok.

I know we have electricians here. Where they at!??

I've passed 6 different state exams, does that count?

 

[Scooby24]

Your are needlessly spreading gross misinformation about receptacles and sustained power!

Please do some research, perhaps start here: https://iaeimagazine.org/features/receptacle-grades-what-do-they-mean/

If you do the research, you will find the actual written standard does not have a grade of "industrial", or "commercial", these are terms manufacturers have made up to supposedly denote their quality.

I most certainly am not and I don't need to do the research. I already have the information. The specifications require meeting standards for such metrics as temperature rise, heat resistance, insulation resistance, dielectric withstanding voltage, current overload, etc. All of which grade improvements on these metrics improve the ability to withstand sustained peak power.

 

[tuminatr]

When you're pushing electrical right to the edge of failure, I suspect the slightest variation of draw/temps would cause one connection point to fail sooner than the other. And at least with the Tesla chargers, most of them seem to shut off quickly so you don't end up with a runaway fire.

I have seen a few 14-50 plugs on tesla 60a EVSE's more than likely these types of failures are plugs being installed wrong or loose connections or driving too much amperage through the 14-50. You could go one step better and hard wire that way you don't need to use a GFI breaker.

That being said if it's only a few extra bucks for a better plug then why not. Thanks for the info I did not know there were two types of 14-50's

 

[AzCoronaDog]

Time to take a step back and ask the question...why?

This isn't philosophic. It's electrical engineering. And the evidence is overwhelming.

Quoting posts from car forums made by consumers is hardly "engineering".
Post the links to the actual engineering standards like I did, then read them and quit spreading anecdotal "evidence" as gospel.

There is no such thing as a "duty cycle" for pulling the maximum rated amperage through a receptacle or plug. This is not even logical.

I am not disagreeing with the good intentions of your original post, and I agree that everyone should use high quality components in any high amperage electrical system. That is just common sense. Check your electrical equipment regularly for signs of problems. Keep a fire extinguisher (or 2 or more) handy near high amperage connections.

But I have had a stove and a dryer and a compressor and a welder plugged in to average quality outlets for over 15 years with no issues. I am quite certain many millions of homes have similar equipment. This is not a systemic issue with the outlets.

 

[Scooby24]

Quoting posts from car forums made by consumers is hardly "engineering".
Post the links to the actual engineering standards like I did, then read them and quit spreading anecdotal "evidence" as gospel.

There is no such thing as a "duty cycle" for pulling the maximum rated amperage through a receptacle or plug. This is not even logical.

I am not disagreeing with the good intentions of your original post, and I agree that everyone should use high quality components in any high amperage electrical system. That is just common sense. Check your electrical equipment regularly for signs of problems. Keep a fire extinguisher (or 2 or more) handy near high amperage connections.

But I have had a stove and a dryer and a compressor and a welder plugged in to average quality outlets for over 15 years with no issues. I am quite certain many millions of homes have similar equipment. This is not a systemic issue with the outlets.

Jesus man these are all products that CYCLE their power needs. The heater elements CYCLE power. The compressor kicks on and off. The welder isn't continuous maximum power draw.

The commercial outlets are FINE for what you were using them for.

They aren't fine for the EVSE power requirements.

 

[AzCoronaDog]

I most certainly am not and I don't need to do the research. I already have the information. The specifications require meeting standards for such metrics as temperature rise, heat resistance, insulation resistance, dielectric withstanding voltage, current overload, etc. All of which grade improvements on these metrics improve the ability to withstand sustained peak power.

You and Telsa have listed "grades" that do not exist in the Standard for Attachment Plugs and Receptacles, ANSI/UL 498 and CSA CAN/C22.2 No. 42-99, General Use Receptacles, Attachment Plugs, and Similar Wiring Devices.

Where did you get this information? Post a link to a credible source please. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

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