Ford deploying Mach-E 'angels' to find, fix bad EV chargers

[mburtsvt]

The main reason I think it COULD happen is because of government grants/credits Tesla would collect for opening up. Nothing makes people get stuff done like money.

In addition Tesla is losing millions on the super chargers.

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[Stang68]

For sure.. but if those grants/credit pass then the Telsa is also $7500 cheaper and push people to that brand. It's less common with the Mach-E because it is an unique car, but on other forums... a huge reason folks don't buy Teslas is the lack of tax credit.

I still think Ford needs to build some chargers. Supercharger network is great but dictated by Telsa - even if they open it up. Ford can bring traffic to their dealerships and service their customers. When the Lightning is released... they will need to do something. Many DC chargers are in tiny urban parking lots where parking would be painful with a truck and many of these cables barely reach to the port unless you are parked literally touching the charger.

The main issues I could see with Ford dealers adding CCS fast chargers is what's there to do at a Ford dealer? haha I can only look at the new Bronco for so long!

 

[Stang68]

In addition Tesla is losing millions on the super chargers.

Yeah, we all know the future for software companies and companies in general is "services", so if Tesla can $ervice every EV out there with a premium SuperCharger experience, then they should.

 

[littlD]

Yeah, we all know the future for software companies and companies in general is "services", so if Tesla can $ervice every EV out there with a premium SuperCharger experience, then they should.

And Tesla sure is building a bunch more.

Check out https://supercharge.info/data for details

 

[voxel]

And Tesla sure is building a bunch more.

Check out https://supercharge.info/data for details

They sold/shipped 200+K EVs last quarter compared to VW and Ford who maybe shipped 10-20K? If they weren’t ramping up heavily I’d be concerned. I am concerned that EA isn’t…

 

[Stang68]

And Tesla sure is building a bunch more.

Check out https://supercharge.info/data for details

Exactly. It would be silly for Tesla not to make money off their superchargers from the influx of new EV owners.

Writing is on the wall for Tesla...with every other manufacturer gunning for them it's only a matter of time until they're no longer the biggest EV maker. They need to pivot to their biggest strength, the charging network.

 

[voxel]

Exactly. It would be silly for Tesla not to make money off their superchargers from the influx of new EV owners.

Writing is on the wall for Tesla...with every other manufacturer gunning for them it's only a matter of time until they're no longer the biggest EV maker. They need to pivot to their biggest strength, the charging network.

Here's the problem... how does ANYBODY make money off of public EV chargers? I've tried 100% public charging in my first month of EV ownership and I have to say that without free EA charging (from the ID.4 - 200 kW used so far)... public EV charging is more expensive than gas and that makes me want to avoid them.

EVGo charging cost me $0.13/mile (50 kW - billed by the minute)
Gas in 20mpg car is $0.14/mile (so cheaper in a more efficient car)

Installation of these chargers is $100-200K easily. They are making a few dollars per charge at most and barely getting 10% utilization during the day.

The reality is.... EV charging is a money loser. You need to make money elsewhere... either convenience store or by being the automaker (Telsa).

 

[fightinag]

Seems almost all manufacturers at least do 240v. It's a cost thing.

Even Tesla service centers just do what we call "Destination chargers" (240V 48A).

To my knowledge, only the Brentwood TN Service Center has Superchargers, and they removed them from the navigation as now Nashville has three other V3 (250kWh) charging locations. the SC uses them for charging cars for delivery. They are available to the public when not in use, but during the day, they're busy.

And they're really expensive to put in. Small town dealers probably already are pushing it to pay for the equipment and tooling for servicing EVs, let alone DC chargers.

Ford should pay for it....NOT the dealerships !

 

[Billyk24]

Hello m

Hello Mr Palmer.
You mentioned the F-150 Lightning.
You also mentioned pull thru charging stations when you use your Lightning while pulling a trailer or any other load.
Are they any of those pull thru charging stations operational yet? Are they incorporated with the usual truck stops such as Pilot, Flying J, Love's or other major truck stops now? I have reserved an F-150 Lightning and I intend to use it pulling my camper to my favorite vacation spots.
Usually now, I have not exhausted my 500Kwh that came with my Mach E and whenever I pull into an EA station and have an issue, I am directed to contact EA and report the malfunctioning station. EA will prompted you to use another station. But things are going to get crowded when you pull at a station and see multiple vehicles waiting for one working charging station.
Ford running around to find and tell EA that their stations don't work properly is a nice gesture but EA know of the problem stations and need to service them promptly.
All that also is wish full thinking. Until there are enough DC fast chargers on line so it will not create major problems and discourage people taking their electric vehicles to long distance trips.
Mr Palmer, how easy is for you and Ford to working with EA and is charging network?
What about pull thru DC fast charging stations?
I will appreciate your input.
Thank you.

Long distance travel in a BEV? You might have better luck with the Rivian stations that beginning to arrive. It might be 2023/2024 before rural areas and states such as West Virginia/Wisconsin get needed attention.

 

[RickMachE]

Here's the problem... how does ANYBODY make money off of public EV chargers? I've tried 100% public charging in my first month of EV ownership and I have to say that without free EA charging (from the ID.4 - 200 kW used so far)... public EV charging is more expensive than gas and that makes me want to avoid them.

EVGo charging cost me $0.13/mile (50 kW - billed by the minute)
Gas in 20mpg car is $0.14/mile (so cheaper in a more efficient car)

Installation of these chargers is $100-200K easily. They are making a few dollars per charge at most and barely getting 10% utilization during the day.

The reality is.... EV charging is a money loser. You need to make money elsewhere... either convenience store or by being the automaker (Telsa).

Scratching my head at this...

If you own an EV, then gas isn't an option, regardless of the price.

If you own an EV, and travel with it, public charging is your ONLY option, and high speed charging is the only real option (50kw or higher).

Your pricing for EV charging isn't representative of what I've seen. Electrify America charges $0.31kWh for Pass+ members in states where they can do that, and in per minute states they charge $0.24 per minute for Pass+.

Let's assume that the per minute chargers give you 1.6kWh (average I have experienced).
Let's assume you're getting 3.5 miles per kWh.

Under the kWh plan, that's $0.31 / 3.5 = $0.089/mile
Under the per minute plan, that's $.24/1.6/3.5 = $0.043/mile

At home, I pay $0.125 per kWh in offpeak periods, so my per mile cost would be $0.036. So EA charging in per minute states is very close to my home cost.

None of this takes into account the loss between charger and car, but the comparison is still relevant.

Keep in mind that VW invested in EA because they had to invest $2B into charging infrastructure. They're looking to sell a stake and get a $1B investor.

 

[voxel]

So I didn’t outline what chargers I was using. EVGos are far more common (5x) than Electrify America (there’s one in the city) and EVGo charge by the minute ($0.35) at 50 kW.

My last charge was 20mins, delivering 15 kW at $7.50. That’s about 52.5 miles for $7.50 which is $0.14 per mile. Same cost gas for a 20mpg car here. Those folks without home or work chargers would not have any gas cost savings.

I pretty much am trying to charge completely using public chargers in my first month of EV to see how the experience is. EA is free (ID.4 owner) to me and yes it is faster and cheaper but also 20 miles away so I only use it on the return leg.

If it wasn’t free, EA is $0.31 per kWh which is double my home cost. I still highly doubt EA is remotely profitable because of cost of hardware and thin profit margins. It only exists because of the VW settlement and may disappear in 5-10 years.

Scratching my head at this...

If you own an EV, then gas isn't an option, regardless of the price.

If you own an EV, and travel with it, public charging is your ONLY option, and high speed charging is the only real option (50kw or higher).

Your pricing for EV charging isn't representative of what I've seen. Electrify America charges $0.31kWh for Pass+ members in states where they can do that, and in per minute states they charge $0.24 per minute for Pass+.

Let's assume that the per minute chargers give you 1.6kWh (average I have experienced).
Let's assume you're getting 3.5 miles per kWh.

Under the kWh plan, that's $0.31 / 3.5 = $0.089/mile
Under the per minute plan, that's $.24/1.6/3.5 = $0.043/mile

At home, I pay $0.125 per kWh in offpeak periods, so my per mile cost would be $0.036. So EA charging in per minute states is very close to my home cost.

None of this takes into account the loss between charger and car, but the comparison is still relevant.

Keep in mind that VW invested in EA because they had to invest $2B into charging infrastructure. They're looking to sell a stake and get a $1B investor.

 

[Scrannel]

Here's a hint...

EV Rental Company Dropping All EVs Aside From Tesla's Vehicles (insideevs.com)

It's ALL about charging.

 

[lwilliams0514]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Your thoughts?

Source: https://www.autonews.com/service/how-ford-helping-ev-owners-charging-stations


Ford deploying 'angels' to find, fix bad EV chargers

Employees in specially instrumented Mach-Es will test out individual chargers in areas where connected-vehicle data say customers are having problems.

SAN FRANCISCO — Ford Motor Co. knows its customers' electric vehicle charging experience is less than perfect, and it's deploying an army of "angels" to fix it.

The automaker offers customers some 63,000 plugs across the country in what it calls a "network of networks," made up of stations from Electrify America, ChargePoint and others. That patchwork collection of third-party chargers has occasionally been problematic for Mustang Mach-E owners looking to power up on the road.

"There are a lot of plugs out there, but some of them are old and they don't have the quality or reliability we want," Darren Palmer, Ford's general manager of battery electric vehicles, told Automotive News during a media drive program in San Francisco. "Over 99.5 percent of customers go into a charger and get a charge. We're pleased about that. But a number less than that get a charge the first time they charge."

Enter the Charge Angels.

Employees in specially instrumented Mach-Es will drive around and test out individual chargers in areas where connected vehicle data — or angry social media posts — say customers are having problems.

"All they'll do all day long is go and check them to see where they fail and why," Palmer said.

Details of the program are still being worked out, but officials say it's expected to launch before the end of the year with an undetermined number of Ford employees.

Palmer said he came up with the name.

"It's a guardian angel who's looking after you when you don't even know you need it, and they're just in the background," he said.

The goal is to make the company's charging network, which will expand in the near future, as reliable as possible as it prepares for the launch of the F-150 Lightning next year. Palmer said the last thing Ford wants is for customers towing heavy loads or large trailers to have to maneuver to multiple chargers before they can get one to work.

He said he's still brainstorming ideas for how to make the program more fun.

"Maybe if you spot an angel you get a gift," he said. "I'm thinking about that."

This right here is what we are waiting for. Ford being proactive in looking for bad chargers. They should have an app that you can report issues too. Like AT&T's "Marks the spot" app that lets customers report issues and the reporting notes their account for diag later.

I think the MME community would help in identifying bad chargers.

I do think EA is trying to expand their network though. They just opened fast chargers outside Macy's at a mall I frequent in Culver City, CA.

 

[dtbaker61]

Thor

talkin bout SERIOUS dc charge current...

 

[mdolan92869]

talkin bout SERIOUS dc charge current...

If Ford doesn't get Chris Hemsworth to do ads for the F-150 Lightning, then someone is really screwing up.

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