Motorweek's GTPE performance test results (caution: 1/4 trap speed talk within ?)

[Njia]

I’m going to wildly speculate here, but given that the power output is limited to just 5 sec, this is probably a heat management and/or durability issue that impacts either or both of the battery module and electric motors. If I had to choose one or the other, I’d pick the motors. In either event, engineers are trying to protect the physical components from excess wear leading to failure - maybe of the catastrophic sort. These aren’t the sort of problems that would have a fix in software - unless lots more data from the field shows less wear than expected, allowing the software-controlled power output to be extended for more time.

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[Mach1E]

I’m going to wildly speculate here, but given that the power output is limited to just 5 sec, this is probably a heat management and/or durability issue that impacts either or both of the battery module and electric motors. If I had to choose one or the other, I’d pick the motors. In either event, engineers are trying to protect the physical components from excess wear leading to failure - maybe of the catastrophic sort. These aren’t the sort of problems that would have a fix in software - unless lots more data from the field shows less wear than expected, allowing the software-controlled power output to be extended for more time.

You could say the exact same thing about battery capacity……. And they’re already expanding what we can access.

You could also say the same thing about Tesla and Porsche BEVs, and both of them gave free power increases after the cars were delivered.

So the competition and now Ford has set the precedent for delivering cars with the “training wheels” on then later releasing more performance.

So not a big surprise when a super conservative training wheels setup is delivered to us (5 seconds), we are expecting they do something about it later.

 

[Blue highway]

Based on Darren Palmer's previous comments, they're well aware of the quarter mile kerfuffle. Until he said a few weeks ago that they're opening the pack capacity up, moving the 80% cliff, and increasing charge speed, it was silence on that front too.

So, chances are good that they're working on a dragstrip mode and we'll see improvements in trap speed & time.

I’m not so sure this generation car will see a fix. The 5 second limit appears to be there to limit battery heating. TFL on YouTube shows that the full power runs are not available back to back. The battery has to cool. Better battery cooling will require a battery redesign. Better battery cooling is needed for significantly faster charging above 80-90% SOC or any sustained charging above 1C.

 

[Mach1E]

I’m not so sure this generation car will see a fix. The 5 second limit appears to be there to limit battery heating. TFL on YouTube shows that the full power runs are not available back to back. The battery has to cool. Better battery cooling will require a battery redesign. Better battery cooling is needed for significantly faster charging above 80-90% SOC or any sustained charging above 1C.

I’m still not convinced.

It seems the 5 second limit is to prevent battery heating, not necessarily BECAUSE of battery heating.

Haven’t seen any evidence that the GT suffers from hot batteries, only that it suffers from super conservative programming.

Is there any other BEV on the planet that loses 150 hp after 5 seconds? Porsche Taycan for example is about an 80 hp boost. Ford is waaay too conservative.

 

[silverelan]

I’m still not convinced.

It seems the 5 second limit is to prevent battery heating, not necessarily BECAUSE of battery heating.

Haven’t seen any evidence that the GT suffers from hot batteries, only that it suffers from super conservative programming.

Is there any other BEV on the planet that loses 150 hp after 5 seconds? Porsche Taycan for example is about an 80 hp boost. Ford is waaay too conservative.

Yup, I'm inclined to agree that the software is proactively hobbling the pony.

IMO, more important than the quarter-mile trap speed / time is the acceleration above 50mph. I want the effortless ability to pass on the freeway. If there's any improvement to the quarter-mile time, I'd hope it'd also boost acceleration from 50mph.

 

[Blue highway]

I’m still not convinced.

It seems the 5 second limit is to prevent battery heating, not necessarily BECAUSE of battery heating.

Haven’t seen any evidence that the GT suffers from hot batteries, only that it suffers from super conservative programming.

Is there any other BEV on the planet that loses 150 hp after 5 seconds? Porsche Taycan for example is about an 80 hp boost. Ford is waaay too conservative.

The Porsche system is an 800v system vs 400v for our cars ( and most current EVs). One of the reasons to design around a higher voltage is to reduce current for a given power level and thus reduce heat for a given level of power. Ford may be overly conservative but it’s not completely without reason.

 

[concept machine]

I'd like the option of being able to overheat my battery pack LOL!
seriously though, I would think Ford would at least give us one 10 second full drain, then step down from there and then limit power afterwards until pack cools. So in effect, have a drag mode.
All their other performance cars have this. I believe even their 5.0 Mustangs have this. Why not on their Mach E Mustang?
I have faith this will change.
If not, a tuner may come along one day to enable.

 

[Mach1E]

The Porsche system is an 800v system vs 400v for our cars ( and most current EVs). One of the reasons to design around a higher voltage is to reduce current for a given power level and thus reduce heat for a given level of power. Ford may be overly conservative but it’s not completely without reason.

So that explains Porsche, but what about other manufacturers using 400v?

Is there anyone else reducing power by 150hp?

If not there are only two explanations. Either Ford is too conservative or they built an inferior product. I’m almost certain it’s the first one and that’s easily fixed OTA.

 

[khorton]

Hopefully Ford is simply being conservative and the in-service data will show that the motors, etc are holding up well. And that they decide to relax these limits via an OTA update. This is how it worked with the Tesla Model 3 about a year after first deliveries. Tesla increased the available power 5% in mid-2019 via a free OTA update, and later added a $2000 upgrade to get another 10% power increase. The 5% increase on my Model 3 was noticeable. I've so far resisted spending $2K to get the next 10%, but it is very tempting.

 

[nj1266]

I’m not so sure this generation car will see a fix. The 5 second limit appears to be there to limit battery heating. TFL on YouTube shows that the full power runs are not available back to back. The battery has to cool. Better battery cooling will require a battery redesign. Better battery cooling is needed for significantly faster charging above 80-90% SOC or any sustained charging above 1C.

Do you happen to have a link to the TFL video. thanks.

 

[65sohc]

Over the past number of years Ford has demonstrated a pattern of emphasizing, ie. hyping, Mustang track capabilities, only to have significant flaws emerge once in the hands of actual customers. One was in the first generation Coyote-powered cars which couldn't be shifted at redline because the transmission locked up. Then there was the track-bred GT350 which would overheat and go into limp mode half way through a 20 minute track session. Both of these led to lawsuits. Neither condition was acknowledged by Ford, nor was any remedy offered other than buying a newer model which had the problems rectified.

 

[sotek2345]

Over the past number of years Ford has demonstrated a pattern of emphasizing, ie. hyping, Mustang track capabilities, only to have significant flaws emerge once in the hands of actual customers. One was in the first generation Coyote-powered cars which couldn't be shifted at redline because the transmission locked up. Then there was the track-bred GT350 which would overheat and go into limp mode half way through a 20 minute track session. Both of these led to lawsuits. Neither condition was acknowledged by Ford, nor was any remedy offered other than buying a newer model which had the problems rectified.

Yup, had that shifting issue in my 2014. Better shift mount bracket cleaned it right up. The GT350 was only an issue for non-track pack (so no coolers) cars, which Ford did away with in 2017 models (and increased the price accordingly

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Yup, had that shifting issue in my 2014. Better shift mount bracket cleaned it right up. The GT350 was only an issue for non-track pack (so no coolers) cars, which Ford did away with in 2017 models (and increased the price accordingly

Exactly, the Steeda shifter mount bracket fixed any redline shift issues that my MT-82 ‘12 GT/CS had. That and the TSB for the fluid additive that cleaned up cold shift feel. They then incorporated a bunch of fixes in subsequent Iterations of the MT-82, but it damn sure ain’t a Tremec TR3060. And I believe that although a portion of the Class Action suit against Ford was dismissed, it was still approved to continue.

And I don’t know wtf Ford was thinking on the GT350 by making Tech and Track packages mutually exclusive on the ‘16. So dumb. Every 350 needed the track pack no matter what. But like you said, it got addressed.

 

[Auto Motive]

Honestly, the early 7.7-7.8 1/8th mile ETs were all we needed to see to know it is capable of a sub-12.0 in the 1/4. Now we’re seeing 7.5s and 12.1s.

But yeah, I have a feeling a lot of the major reviewers are going to really harp on the premature slowing/trap speed issue.

My wife's GTP is a red light to red light muscle car slayer. It seems every car head wants to race her mach e. It hilarious each time. She loves it and at 68 and me 73 are having so much excitement with the new E.

 

[Crow979]

I’m going to wildly speculate here, but given that the power output is limited to just 5 sec, this is probably a heat management and/or durability issue that impacts either or both of the battery module and electric motors. If I had to choose one or the other, I’d pick the motors. In either event, engineers are trying to protect the physical components from excess wear leading to failure - maybe of the catastrophic sort. These aren’t the sort of problems that would have a fix in software - unless lots more data from the field shows less wear than expected, allowing the software-controlled power output to be extended for more time.

I would speculate it's an inverter heat dissipation issue, converting the DC to AC.

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