Safety Recall 22S41 - 2021-2022 Mach E - HVBJB Recall [high voltage battery main contactors may overheat]

[Steady Eddie]

Ford dealers often have just 1-2 techs that are EV-certified. If every single MME since January 2021 has to get this work done, the service departments are going to be back logged until forever. Any Ford dealer that opted not to get EV-certified is missing out on so much money.

Reminds me of a friend who needed to charge his Bolt in Caspar WY. Couldn’t at Chevy dlr who said they didn’t know of a charger in the area. He got his charge at the Chrysler dealer next door. When he complained to the Chevy dealer, they told him they didn’t believe in EVs.

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[ToadStool]

From the Ford FAQ

Q. What is the cause of the issue?
A. The design and part-to-part variation of the high voltage battery main relay switch is not robust to the heat generated during DC fast charging and multiple wide open pedal events.

If you look at the that you will see part to part variance, but most parts will typically have a manufacturing variance and parts suppliers will state the variance so manufacture can then see if that variance fits within an acceptable tolerance. The key words are NOT ROBUST, a part has been chosen and used that is not up to the task at hand.

This part should have failed during regular testing procedures and never got anywhere near a production vehicle, that is has means either Fords testing procedures are hopeless or the part did initially pass without issue and as can happen all the time in manufacturing revisions to it have been made by the supplier but the revised part was not rested which is just as bad.

PR will do its best to down play but from a Ford engineering perspective there can be no excuses for making such a cock up.

Too much to read everything in this thread, but it's hard to believe that any responsible company would opt for minimal tolerance spec'ed products to save a few pennies per vehicle. Look at what saving a little might potentially cost Ford (and us) now.

I've designed a few products in my lifetime and I always over-engineer the design to avoid exactly this type of scenario. And if I were ever to design a high-current drawing, high-temperature object I wouldn't think twice ensuring it was grossly over-engineered to avoid such catastrophic failures. Especially if fires and/or lives are potentially at stake.

Maybe EV's should be UL approved before going to market?

 

[Steady Eddie]

Thanks for posting this. Most helpful comment so far. It makes sense for Ford to use software to prevent drivers from getting stranded.

It answers some questions but also provokes others:

• Why does this effect nearly all and only cars made in Mexico?
  • Are they using different hardware in Mexico?
  • Why would the same hardware installed elsewhere not have similar problems?
  • Why would Ford different parts for different manufacturing locations?
  • Are they using different software?(seems highly unlikely)
  • Or is this due to installation variations of the same part by workers in Mexico?
• If all cars not made in Mexico are good, is Ford going to begin using the same hardware (if different) from elsewhere in Mexico going forward?
• If this is related to installation/ manufacturing, wouldn’t it be an easy fix for dealers to tighten up loose contacts or fix whatever else is wrong?
• Is Ford just planning on addressing this issue reactively for people who have a problem identified by the software patch?

It seems like a software bandaid is good insofar as it keeps people from getting stranded. But if there is an underlying hardware issue, Ford should give owners the option to have it repaired proactively. Some owners may feel “ticking time bomb” anxiety.

I hadn’t planned on driving a PC.

 

[mmap]

If you use a level 3 fast charger, some are capable of 150kw. Not knowing what the battery voltage is, it can easily be over that. A 800 volt battery would be able to take 185 amps max. But a lower pack can be over 300 amps.

The MachE HV battery is 400v, and at GT's maximum power draw of 358 kw that'd be 895 amps.
(For ER AWD it's 695A, and for ER RWD it's 540A, and for SR it's 495A.)

 

[H.Bergeron]

So it begs the question: are new vehicles getting a more robust part?

From the Ford FAQ

Q. What is the cause of the issue?
A. The design and part-to-part variation of the high voltage battery main relay switch is not robust to the heat generated during DC fast charging and multiple wide open pedal events.

If you look at the that you will see part to part variance, but most parts will typically have a manufacturing variance and parts suppliers will state the variance so manufacture can then see if that variance fits within an acceptable tolerance. The key words are NOT ROBUST, a part has been chosen and used that is not up to the task at hand.

This part should have failed during regular testing procedures and never got anywhere near a production vehicle, that is has means either Fords testing procedures are hopeless or the part did initially pass without issue and as can happen all the time in manufacturing revisions to it have been made by the supplier but the revised part was not rested which is just as bad.

PR will do its best to down play but from a Ford engineering perspective there can be no excuses for making such a cock up.

 

[FLmac]

Goal posts already moved to end of Q3 2022 lol. BlueCruise 2.0!

Wait… they are now saying end of Q3? I’m so confused! Maybe if I wait until Monday it’ll change again.

 

[H.Bergeron]

I hadn’t planned on driving a PC.

A joke that went around in the late '90s where Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: “If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.”

Jack Welsh responds: "If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, for no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on."

 

[Fixbear]

The MachE HV battery is 400v, and at GT's maximum power draw of 358 kw that'd be 895 amps.
(For ER AWD it's 695A, and for ER RWD it's 540A, and for SR it's 495A.)

That means the contactor would have to be quite robust.

 

[AKgrampy]

Why are the cars made in China unaffected? Or are they and neither China nor Ford cares? Or do we just not know?

They are quite different if what I have heard is correct. Different batteries for sure. Someone stated the only thing in common is the body style but that may be an exaggeration.

 

[scoopman]

They are quite different if what I have heard is correct. Different batteries for sure. Someone stated the only thing in common is the body style but that may be an exaggeration.

Chinese cars have battery packs from a Chinese vehicle maker called BYD. Presumably they knew how to engineer a HVBJB a little better the first time.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Chinese cars have battery packs from a Chinese vehicle maker called BYD. Presumably they knew how to engineer a HVBJB a little better the first time.

Why do you presume this to be the case?

 

[scoopman]

Why do you presume this to be the case?

Well, they couldn’t have done worse than Ford did for the GT models.

BYD is pretty experienced in making all sorts of EVs including stuff like electric public buses.

 

[scoopman]

Why do you presume this to be the case?

btw we know from Chinese review video posted recently that there’s no 5 second limit on the Chinese GT.

 

[Phil-Springs]

Unless of course the supplier really is way out of spec..

 

[macchiaz-o]

btw we know from Chinese review video posted recently that there’s no 5 second limit on the Chinese GT.

Is it also faster 0-60? How do the warranties compare? Vehicle costs? Ride handling?

I think that's an interesting and fascinating data point, but I don't know what to make of it at all.

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