DCFC in America - it’s falling apart

[ebeponyan]

There are just some politicians who think free charging provided by the government isn't fair to ICE owners.

Wait till you hear about fossil fuel subsidies.

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[SnBGC]

That’s clearly a charger malfunction. Ford believes that MME and Lightning owners have no business knowing how fast their cars are charging. That’s why we don’t have a kW readout in the car’s charging screen.

Yep. Not blaming the car. Result is the same no matter what the issue is. I am traveling on a hope and a prayer that the next DCFC station has a operational machine. That particular station had 8 or 10 plugs and several were being used. The first 3 or 4 that I tried would not work. I was lucky to get that one.

 

[timbop]

Uhhuh… that’s why nobody ever complains about EV chargers being broken….

Actually, on my trip to Florida from NJ I ran into EA techs at 2 different EA sites - both with poor ratings in plugshare. Talking to both techs, they visit those sites constantly because the make of stations at them were crappy and they constantly break down. The one guy said he was at the site every few weeks.

As the video you apparently didn't watch carefully pointed out, the equipment used so far has mostly been cobbled together and repurposed and is simply not good enough or properly tested. In Europe things are much better because governments have pushed the issues and purpose built equipment that has been tested rigorously is being deployed. While Kyle also tried to intimate that EA would rather not have anyone charge, that is a cynical and inaccurate - particularly since shortly after that he talks about how much the CEO of EA wants to succeed in his mission. EVgo and the other charging companies in the US are private companies NOT created by the VW fine and thus are intending to make a profit.

We are on the early days of a highly transformative technological shift, and it will be bloody. If left to the devices of the free market alone then most of the country would be ignored and fall behind. FDR, Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, and many other politicians recognized that the role of government is to step in where capitalism cannot go in order to accomplish what is necessary. Otherwise, large swaths of this country would not have electrical, telephone, paved routes of commerce, or many other crucial pieces of infrastructure.

But, yeah it's all the politician's fault that the charging infrastructure is messed up.

 

[MW1515]

I have owned a BEV capable of fast charging for 3.5 years now. Only 5% of the time do I charge outside my home. And I've only used DCFC 4 times in that time. My point is that I don't think people are hesitating to buy EVs bc they are worried about the national DCFC infrastructure. I think many are just waiting for MSRP to come down and for more selection (makes, models, etc.) and that their customer experience will not necessarily be dependent on how good the DCFC infrastructure is.

Technology adaptation usually starts slow and then explodes like you can see in this picture. We are at the beginning of the explosion IMO, and once it happens, the free market will make EVSE companies pay much more attention to DCFC maintenance and availability, much like gas pumps now. Of course that is not an excuse for improper DCFC maintenance now.

 

[ebeponyan]

Only 5% of the time do I charge outside my home. And I've only used DCFC 4 times in that time. My point is that I don't think people are hesitating to buy EVs bc they are worried about the national DCFC infrastructure.

I wont argue about MSRP being a major factor, but don't underestimate the general public's ability to fear change. I have a relative who hasn't driven more than 50 miles in a day over the last probably 20 years, and is still anxious about range and fast charging.

 

[MW1515]

I wont argue about MSRP being a major factor, but don't underestimate the general public's ability to fear change. I have a relative who hasn't driven more than 50 miles in a day over the last probably 20 years, and is still anxious about range and fast charging.

Very true unfortunately. I have a cousin who is worried about getting caught in a freak snowstorm and stuck on the highway in an EV and dying of hypothermia after the battery runs dead. ? I was like "even though it's possible, have you ever heard of people walking around with cans of gas to fill up people's tanks who are low in a snowstorm on the highway???" ? Not to mention that an average full EV battery would last a couple days at least sitting still with the heat on, and an ICE would probably run out of gas after 10 or 12 hours.

 

[Zer0t]

There's no reason that couldn't be a national plan leveraging the Interstate Highway System. That's what I was speaking of when I was talking about money being squandered elsewhere on tax rebates.

Could be investing in charging infrastructure could remove the need to subsidize the cars.

 

[mkhuffman]

Very true unfortunately. I have a cousin who is worried about getting caught in a freak snowstorm and stuck on the highway in an EV and dying of hypothermia after the battery runs dead. ? I was like "even though it's possible, have you ever heard of people walking around with cans of gas to fill up people's tanks who are low in a snowstorm on the highway???" ? Not to mention that an average full EV battery would last a couple days at least sitting still with the heat on, and an ICE would probably run out of gas after 10 or 12 hours.

After the snowstorm in VA that stranded a bunch of people on I95, I did some testing with my MME to see how long I could have been stranded there. Our car uses a 5 kW heater, but it really only needs 1.5 kW to maintain the interior temperature. Of course the car needs to maintain the battery also, so depending on the outside temperature the car could be using 3 kW per hour.

So it is pretty easy math. If your battery is charged to 60 kWh, it could last 20 hours before hitting total zero. Of course now you are stranded and will need a tow, but that is a pretty long time. And definitely better than most ICE vehicles can do.

 

[RickMachE]

While no one can claim that DCFC has issues, the title is alarmist and pure clickbait. But luckily one can not watch the videos, and can ignore threads they don't want to read or see. Actually reading the state plans and seeing how they will hold, or not hold those that receive funds accountable for uptime might be a valuable use of one's time.

I do find it humorous that people can accept that some businesses have supply chain and people issues, but other industries can't have those same issues. And so many complain but don't utilize PlugShare and apps of the network to report issues.

 

[Logal727]

While no one can claim that DCFC has issues, the title is alarmist and pure clickbait. But luckily one can not watch the videos, and can ignore threads they don't want to read or see. Actually reading the state plans and seeing how they will hold, or not hold those that receive funds accountable for uptime might be a valuable use of one's time.

I do find it humorous that people can accept that some businesses have supply chain and people issues, but other industries can't have those same issues. And so many complain but don't utilize PlugShare and apps of the network to report issues.

I do agree the video title and the thread title are a bit over the top. Kyle just made a video because lots of people complained to him in a short period of time, which only really means people knew who to complain to, it's not a scientific measure in any way. He also says his friend with a Rivian had zero issues charging on a road trip at EA.

 

[phil]

...politicians recognized that the role of government is to step in where capitalism cannot go in order to accomplish what is necessary.

If something is necessary, there is profit to be made and capitalism will promptly "go there".

If something is not necessary, but is politically expedient, then politicians will take money from taxpayers and waste it. Early phone or electric service in Podunk, OK was not "necessary". It was economically wasteful, but it got some politician a few votes. Similarly, it may suit your fancy to have all the newest EVs and chargers in Podunk, but that does not mean it's either necessary or desirable.

 

[RickMachE]

I do agree the video title and the thread title are a bit over the top. Kyle just made a video because lots of people complained to him in a short period of time, which only really means people knew who to complain to, it's not a scientific measure in any way. He also says his friend with a Rivian had zero issues charging on a road trip at EA.

Kyle made a video to make revenue, pure and simple. He heard whining, so he saw a chance for money.

 

[Logal727]

Kyle made a video to make revenue, pure and simple. He heard whining, so he saw a chance for money.

I mean, he does seem to care, but yeah, probably that too. Seems like he's got a huge operation now.

 

[SWO]

Actually, on my trip to Florida from NJ I ran into EA techs at 2 different EA sites - both with poor ratings in plugshare. Talking to both techs, they visit those sites constantly because the make of stations at them were crappy and they constantly break down. The one guy said he was at the site every few weeks.

As the video you apparently didn't watch carefully pointed out, the equipment used so far has mostly been cobbled together and repurposed and is simply not good enough or properly tested. In Europe things are much better because governments have pushed the issues and purpose built equipment that has been tested rigorously is being deployed. While Kyle also tried to intimate that EA would rather not have anyone charge, that is a cynical and inaccurate - particularly since shortly after that he talks about how much the CEO of EA wants to succeed in his mission. EVgo and the other charging companies in the US are private companies NOT created by the VW fine and thus are intending to make a profit.

We are on the early days of a highly transformative technological shift, and it will be bloody. If left to the devices of the free market alone then most of the country would be ignored and fall behind. FDR, Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, and many other politicians recognized that the role of government is to step in where capitalism cannot go in order to accomplish what is necessary. Otherwise, large swaths of this country would not have electrical, telephone, paved routes of commerce, or many other crucial pieces of infrastructure.

But, yeah it's all the politician's fault that the charging infrastructure is messed up.

I wouldn't expect the CEO of EA to say anything different.

Maybe their logistics are just awful, or maybe they don't care about fixing chargers because they lose money. I know the one I use to go to our cabin was ~broken for 8 months straight with 1/8 chargers operating at 31kw and 7/8 bricked.

As for government investment, I'm not sure building highways is analagous to emerging technology. The UK invested early and now the country is littered with lots of slow archaic chargers. Another example is solar, where the US provided low interest loans. All the companies developing the technology were loaded down with debt and went belly up when chinese manufacturers undercut them. The same could happen with the auto market, though one of the good parts of the legislation just passed punishes production in non-fair trade countries. Time will tell.

 

[@SARANED]

We just traveled from Oshkosh Wisconsin to Pleasent Grove Utah. We found the chargers convenient and reliable. Most of the charging was 20 minutes or less. We have 2022 Ca rt 1 awd extended range we have owned since March 28th. We have 9000 miles on now and will be driving it home tomorrow. It would have been interesting to see this blog when the model A's were first interduced.

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