DCFC in America - it’s falling apart

[SnBGC]

That's pretty much what I have done since I purchased my Mach E on day 1. I have taken it to my older daughter's house about an hour and a half away and in the winter a 100% charge won't allow a round trip like the warmer seasons will. That is the only time I have used an EA DCFC to get home. The rest of the time it's L2 Grizzl-E in my garage. We take our ICE vehicle on long trips.

Yep. Much easier that way.
Still love driving my BEV.....around town. Charging in between cities sucks.
21 min to add 12% is a horrible experience. Almost as bad as OTAs.

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[ab13]

BP sees good profits in EV charging.

"For BP, car chargers to overtake pumps in profitability race"

Might be for European locations, in the US probably not so much.

 

[pacman7474]

I feel as though everyone just completely forgot about the billions of dollars going into the EV infrastructure on the bill that passed in November of 2021.

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/p...-billion-over-five-years-national-ev-charging

 

[Blue highway]

I feel as though everyone just completely forgot about the billions of dollars going into the EV infrastructure on the bill that passed in November of 2021.

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/p...-billion-over-five-years-national-ev-charging

BP sees good profits in EV charging.

"For BP, car chargers to overtake pumps in profitability race"

Did you know that the UK land mass fits inside the US state of Michigan?

The problem with the comparisons of of Euro infrastructure and break even profitability is the vast differences in distance and density.

 

[metalpro2021]

Did you know that the UK land mass fits inside the US state of Michigan?

The problem with the comparisons of of Euro infrastructure and break even profitability is the vast differences in distance and density.

If Russia got involved.. Oh.. wait....

 

[Blue highway]

I feel as though everyone just completely forgot about the billions of dollars going into the EV infrastructure on the bill that passed in November of 2021.

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/p...-billion-over-five-years-national-ev-charging

I've read 8 of the state plans... skimmed a few more. Your take-aways may be different.

This investment is a good thing, but I don't feel optimistic that charging will be quick and widely available any time soon after going through the plans.

A few things I learned:

• It will take ~2 years before most states do enough for us to notice chargers popping up.
  • plan
  • get cash
  • build an org
  • hand out cash
  • build something
• EV's will continue to sell during this time... the ratio of cars to chargers is not going in a favorable direction anywhere in North America, nor will it under this plan. (so yes, we need to do something, but this will deliver less than the headlines promise)
• You need high usage density (read queues, and or much higher prices) at a charger to achieve sustainable profitability...to pay for things like maintenance. To me it appears that this isn't going to happen except in California, and near a few cities in Texas and Florida without big queues. The "so what" is that none of the government cash leads to a sustainable charging business model at the minute.

 

[Vulnox]

I agree with others that I am happy to pay more for more roll out and reliability. The reliability is my biggest concern for longer trips, not length of charging time or anything (within reason). There are only so many back up plans you can deal with when doing a pretty simple drive and have a wife and two young kids, and find yourself at the only DCFC on the route and it's dead or in use with no owner in sight.

That said, if it gets to the price per mile of our F-150, will probably just take the F-150. Which is fine, but would be nice if we had a comfortable ride for sub-5 hour road trips that was also a decent amount less expensive than the F-150, and had reliable charging. So if the truck is 24MPG, and gas is $4/gallon, then it costs a dollar per 6 miles. If the MME gets 3 miles/kWh on the freeway, then I guess the most a kWh could cost is 50 cents from a DCFC for it to be break even with the F-150. I think 40 cents would be where it might be worth taking the MME over the F-150.

Assuming gas keeps at about the trend it has been around here or lower. If it goes back up, obviously the math changes. But I think there is enough gap there that if EA was 40 cents/kWh so they could make a bit more from the investment, or even 45 cents maybe, I would be alright with that.

Hopefully, long term, the stations can bring down costs by consolidating hardware, easier and less frequent repairs, and using local battery storage to cover the higher kWh costs during peak times (which I believe some newer SuperCharger stations have done, along with solar panels to help offset some of the costs).

 

[WikiMart]

Many families have two cars so perhaps the trend will go to EV for around town and ICE for travel. Then as the billions are spent to upgrade the charging network more and more people will feel comfortable traveling. Although you read the problematic posts there are still plenty where charging seems to not be an issue while traveling. It will be interesting to see how things evolve. We are even getting a few DCFC here in Alaska. After they are installed I may start taking my Mach on our 350mile run to Anchorage. It is really already possible but just slightly sketchy.

We have a GTPE and a Ram 1500 in our family, and have no intention of getting rid of our ICE truck. Going long distance, I'm happy to gas up in 5 minutes and go on my way. I love my GTPE around town. No long road trips in an electric vehicle for me for several years (unless I get a Tesla).

 

[Zer0t]

Agreed. If the MME was my only vehicle, then I would just rent an ICE for the occasional road trip and not worry about it. If my road trip requires more than 1 DCFC to get to my destination then I start to second guess taking the BEV anyway.

It’s a personal decision for everyone. I took my Taycan 4S on a greater than 3000 mile trip up and down the east coast and it was fine just using the Porsche AI. I just drove down to Florida Friday in my Lightning using Ford navigation and it went without issue too. I did a ton of trip planning both times and didn’t really use any of it on either trip.

Should Tesla provide access to non-Tesla cars it will be a pretty big game changer for road tripping. I took my previously owned model S everywhere without hesitation. It also had free Supercharging for life and should’ve kept it just for that.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

free charging is one of the problems. If the chargers at my office required payment, there wouldn't be multiple cars sitting there not charging all day. It is really annoying. Beyond annoying, actually. It makes me angry.

Are you employed by the government? If not, get over it. It’s a perk of working at that particular employer. Further, your anger is misdirected, your complaint is with cars not charging at charging spots. Talk to the employees involved or the managers above your level.

 

[KevinS]

NY's plan looks pretty nice to be honest. Great locations leveraging the existing thruway rest stops, which have all of the facilities you want at an EV charging location.

There's no reason that couldn't be a national plan leveraging the Interstate Highway System. That's what I was speaking of when I was talking about money being squandered elsewhere on tax rebates.

 

[KevinS]

I feel as though everyone just completely forgot about the billions of dollars going into the EV infrastructure on the bill that passed in November of 2021.

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/p...-billion-over-five-years-national-ev-charging

That plan is just passing the buck to the states, which just leads to varying levels of enthusiasm depending on which state we're talking about. And that's the problem. It requires national leadership.

 

[RickMachE]

Ok, so NC does not plan to "destroy all EV stations". There are just some politicians who think free charging provided by the government isn't fair to ICE owners, and I happen to agree with that.

In fact, I agree with @Logal727 - free charging is one of the problems. If the chargers at my office required payment, there wouldn't be multiple cars sitting there not charging all day. It is really annoying. Beyond annoying, actually. It makes me angry.

All he had to say was "government" and "free" to get you going...

 

[Spike]

Ok, so NC does not plan to "destroy all EV stations". There are just some politicians who think free charging provided by the government isn't fair to ICE owners, and I happen to agree with that.

In fact, I agree with @Logal727 - free charging is one of the problems. If the chargers at my office required payment, there wouldn't be multiple cars sitting there not charging all day. It is really annoying. Beyond annoying, actually. It makes me angry.

The bill does away with free public chargers. Which have been put in place to assist in the adoption of a "new" technology. I know around me, some places put them in their shopping and restaurant area to entice patronage of local businesses. Instead of charging in an empty lot off the highway, they would rather people come to the downtown, plug in, and while they are waiting get a bite to eat or do some shopping. People in ICE cars generally just gas and go. So there is a public benefit reason. And the government does all sorts of things that benefit some people and not others. Would you advocate that people without kids shouldn't pay taxes for schools? Or that I have owned my house for 18+ years and never needed the fire department, so I shouldn't have to pay that portion of my taxes? Crop subsidies for foods I don't eat?
The bill would also address businesses that install free chargers on their own properties to entice ev owners to visit their establishment. Weird I thought the GOP was big on "let businesses do what they want"?

If cars are sitting there not charging, that typically isn't due to it being free or pay. But certainly, free can make a charger more popular for actual charging of course.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40543385/north-carolina-wants-remove-free-public-ev-chargers/

 

[ChuckA]

Yet you did.

But what he said was correct. Better charging infrastructure will help sell more EV’s then a tax rebate will, IMO.

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