DCFC in America - it’s falling apart

[ridgebackpilot]

Every day a new BEV is sold, it gets worse. Especially when the stupid car companies are offering free EA charging. Because of that, people who travel are competing with locals who just want their free stuff.

Free is only good if there is too much supply. Maybe two years ago you could say some areas had too much supply of DCFC capacity. Not anymore.

And here they come, like locusts looking for free food.

When I bought my GTPE from an out-of-state dealer, the free EA charging helped pay for most of my trip home. It's like getting several free tanks of gas when purchasing an ICE car.

For most people who don't DCFC often, I suspect it takes them many months to exhaust their 250 kWH of free charging.

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[silverelan]

Where in any of that does it say fast chargers?

what are you trying to argue?

 

[mkhuffman]

When I bought my GTPE from an out-of-state dealer, the free EA charging helped pay for most of my trip home. It's like getting several free tanks of gas when purchasing an ICE car.

For most people who don't DCFC often, I suspect it takes them many months to exhaust their 250 kWH of free charging.

I know, and I appreciate it when I travel. But most of the people I have encountered at EA stations appear to be locals, getting their free kWh. Ford limits the amount of free charging by kWH, but some don't have a limit. And those people don't understand how DCFC charging is bad for the battery, or don't care because it is free.

If I could wave my magic wand and eliminate all free charging, I would. Sure it would cost me more, but the chances I would be waiting for a charge would go down dramatically.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

I agree it is falling apart, and I knew it would. People argued with me here on the forum about it.

I still believe waiting for a DCFC will become normal sometime this year, and when that happens, owning a BEV will be a burden instead of a pleasure. At least for trips anyway. I hope it doesn't happen because I really like taking my car on trips. But all signs say "yes".

Has anyone watched that video all the way through? It's way too long for me.

Just watched/listened to the whole thing while hanging in my hotel room here. Mach-E plugged in to the hotel’s level 2 charger. But after stopping by an EA station where 2 of 4 charger have been down for over a month. It’s going to get hard. Kinda glad I still have my F-150 super crew because if we have to travel long distances, at least I have options.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

@Mach-E VLOG pointed out that Kyle got Electrify America’s attention.
https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/194

That Press release provided no information beyond a pitch for how they’re a proactive company. More of the usual bs from EA.

For most people who don't DCFC often, I suspect it takes them many months to exhaust their 250 kWH of free charging.

18 months in and I personally haven’t used a single kWh of the 500 kWh I was given with the car.

Beyond VW and those who cannot charge at home, free charging isn’t the incentive some seem to think.

 

[SWO]

what are you trying to argue?

The title of this thread?

 

[ridgebackpilot]

That Press release provided no information beyond a pitch for how they’re a proactive company. More of the usual bs from EA.

18 months in and I personally haven’t used a single kWh of the 500 kWh I was given with the car.

Beyond VW and those who cannot charge at home, free charging isn’t the incentive some seem to think.

Well, it's not like you can drive your MME out of state and need a DC fast charger! ?

As one who uses my EVs on long drives pretty regularly, I very much appreciated the 250 kWH of free charging. I think I exhausted that allowance in my GTPE over a span of two or three days on the trip home from the dealership...!

 

[mkhuffman]

18 months in and I personally haven’t used a single kWh of the 500 kWh I was given with the car.

That is only because you are smart. But many BEV buyers are not, and they want their free kWh. And it is not just DCFC free kWh, it is all the L2 free charging.

So, sooo many people are charging on free L2 chargers for only one reason: it is free. I can tell when the cars at my office are fully charged by 10 or 11 AM, and sit there all day like the entitled a-holes they are. If they had to pay, they would charge at home. Instead, you know, and I know, they charge for free at work. Because why should they charge at home when they can get it for free at work?

I don't blame them for anything except leaving their cars in the spaces too long, because any normal person will take advantage of free kWh if they can. But that is a huge problem. Take it away, and L2 capacity dramatically opens up. Which will reduce the burden on DCFC stations.

Destination chargers are the answer, only if destination chargers are not free. And if free, only if there are enough for every freaking BEV who comes to that designation. Unlimited supply isn't realistic, so some cost needs to be applied at some point.

 

[daverp]

Nothing in this world is free. EA doesn't give these car manufactures free charging out of the kindness of their hearts. The manufactures are paying the charging networks who intern use that money to fund chargers. So yes "free charging" adds to the network load, it also funds the expansion of the network. These deals are important in securing the capital for expansion as it's contracted revenue.

 

[mkhuffman]

Nothing in this world is free. EA doesn't give these car manufactures free charging out of the kindness of their hearts. The manufactures are paying the charging networks who intern use that money to fund chargers. So yes "free charging" adds to the network load, it also funds the expansion of the network. These deals are important in securing the capital for expansion as it's contracted revenue.

Yes, good point. But it means I have to wait for locals to get their fix when I am traveling. Which sucks. But in reality, I knew this was going to happen and it needs to happen before it is even close to economically viable to build more.

Destination chargers are the answer. Destination chargers are the answer. And 600 mile highway range cars.

 

[timbop]

That is only because you are smart. But many BEV buyers are not, and they want their free kWh. And it is not just DCFC free kWh, it is all the L2 free charging.

He IS smart, but that's not why he doesn't use EA: it's because he lives on an island where there are NO EA chargers

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Well, it's not like you can drive your MME out of state and need a DC fast charger! ?

There are actually quite a few here, all rather intelligently placed too. Even with the circle island route at 240 miles, the ER battery is pushing things when you add in a few side detours. Down to the volcano ocean entry? Another 25 miles round with the return a climb at 1.2 miles/kWh. Stop at a waterfall? And in another 30 miles. Green sand beach? Black sand beach? It all adds up. With that said, there aren’t any interstates here and we’re not driving at 85 (usually). Plus the DCFC station are usually taken up by Teslas anyway using the CHADEMO plug doing their daily charge up. Really.

I’ve used the station near me once, to make sure the car could actually fast charge. It can.

 

[EELinneman]

There are enough recent stories about broken or failing EA stations to invoke the "where there is smoke, there is fire" rule. And, it seems to be a recent issue too. Yesterday, they posted on their website a manifesto about their passion for providing quality and good availability, but those are just words cranked out by marketing and vetted by the lawyers.

With the recent stories about VW pulling out and the even more recent stories about Siemens putting in an investment, I strongly suspect that this company is having cash flow issues. The station closest to my home has 2 out of 3 failed chargers. They have been like this for weeks. No chargers = no revenue = no future. The delay in the federal bill was likely not aligned to their gamble of free cash from us taxpayers.

Will they fix their problems? Who knows. Can they? Likely not right now. I'm scouring financial news sites to find any hard evidence, but when I see these types of systematic failures, it leads to two things - the company putting itself up for sale and a leadership change. Often followed by a chapter 7 or 13 bankruptcy. Politically, I don't think the administration can allow that to happen, so they may be getting their cash now.

 

[EELinneman]

There are actually quite a few here, all rather intelligently placed too. Even with the circle island route at 240 miles, the ER battery is pushing things when you add in a few side detours. Down to the volcano ocean entry? Another 25 miles round with the return a climb at 1.2 miles/kWh. Stop at a waterfall? And in another 30 miles. Green sand beach? Black sand beach? It all adds up. With that said, there aren’t any interstates here and we’re not driving at 85 (usually). Plus the DCFC station are usually taken up by Teslas anyway using the CHADEMO plug doing their daily charge up. Really.

I’ve used the station near me once, to make sure the car could actually fast charge. It can.

I really feel bad for you there. Snow is expected within 20 miles of my house in the next week or so. Let me know if you need someone to drive you around.

 

[timbop]

I really feel bad for you there. Snow is expected within 20 miles of my house in the next week or so. Let me know if you need someone to drive you around.

I guess you'll take the auto train from Blenheim station to Honolulu, and drive to his house from there? ?

(too old of a reference?)

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