DCFC in America - it’s falling apart

[TGIF]

Hopefully as more cars hit the street that will change. We have one DCFC in Fairbanks. Only a 50kW unit with two cables. Problem is to use it the cost is 60 cents per kWh. At home it is 26 cents. So who in their right mind would use it except a traveler? So no or little use results in little or no revenue and revenue is needed to pay for maintenance. I imagine that is the same issue many places. Free funding for capital investment but no funding for maintenance.

EV charging faces competition from home charging for many people. Most people don’t have a gas station in their garage but they do have an electrical outlet. That leaves travelers and non-homeowners to bear the brunt of the cost of public chargers. It’s a difficult nut to crack.

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[DevSecOps]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you are still able to get a charge, right? It's just less convenient for you because you have to wait. Have you polled other drivers when you get to a full station to see if in fact they are travelling like yourself vs just charging locally because it's free? Or are you merely "bitching about those freeloaders"?

Yes actually I have. The last time I was in Salinas at Walmart there were two women engaged in a physical fight over the chargers. Both of them had Salinas license plate brackets on the cars. There was only 2 out of the 4 stations working and one unplugged the other while she was attempting to get to 100% on free charging. I was there and I witnessed the entire thing. Her exact words were "You can't steal my free charge credits, you need to use your own". She was ill informed thinking that someone could just unplug and plug into their car to "steal" the credits, but nonetheless the point was made.

I am so lost on your logic. If everyone at Costco decided to park in the gas station while they go into the store to shop would you also say it's okay, we just have to wait our turn? Common sense and courtesy will get you a long way in life. People should practice it a bit more.

 

[Logal727]

Her exact words were "You can't steal my free charge credits, you need to use your own"

oh my god lol

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

If someone were to depend on that 250kw as their sole charging, it wouldn't go very far.

3 fill ups more or less. Not anything major. The manufacturers ponying up unlimited EA charging is another story, and those manufacturers are paying a lot for that.

 

[RickMachE]

Anyone who travels with the car knows that in the first day the Ford free credits are gone. It's almost a joke. If you live in a per minute EA state, they are worth as little as ~$40 (1.57kW per minute, 159 minutes @ 24 cents Pass+ rate). They do serve the purpose of getting people to use a DC fast charger.

I have seen many car brands at EA chargers doing local charging. Chevy Bolts, VWs, etc. The free years of charging is clearly going to be an impact at some point, in SOME locations.

 

[timbop]

Yes actually I have. The last time I was in Salinas at Walmart there were two women engaged in a physical fight over the chargers. Both of them had Salinas license plate brackets on the cars. There was only 2 out of the 4 stations working and one unplugged the other while she was attempting to get to 100% on free charging. I was there and I witnessed the entire thing. Her exact words were "You can't steal my free charge credits, you need to use your own". She was ill informed thinking that someone could just unplug and plug into their car to "steal" the credits, but nonetheless the point was made.

I am so lost on your logic. If everyone at Costco decided to park in the gas station while they go into the store to shop would you also say it's okay, we just have to wait our turn? Common sense and courtesy will get you a long way in life. People should practice it a bit more.

Undoubtedly sometimes it is just those wanting a free thing who could just as easily forego charging at the DCFC, but that cannot be everyone you encounter at a charging staiton and we both know it.

In fact, if I am in line at the store with a big order and someone with one item gets behind me, I let them go first. If I the cashier is already ringing up my order I don't.

Yes, those that only want free charging shouldn't take the last spot. If there are spots open, are they supposed to leave the chargers open "just in case" someone else "with greater needs" might want to use it? From your logic the chargers need to sit idle except for "travelers in need". Should there be a toteboard, so that those who could possibly make it home without charging aren't allowed to charge either?

Again, to have any chance of being profitable the chargers have to be in use. As the existing chargers get more use, more will be added. Constantly idle chargers don't help anyone.

So yes, your short term inconvenience is acceptable if EA and EVgo and the rest can start making money.

 

[SnBGC]

Both can be simultaneously true.

Without some possibly scary surveillance, a company can't always know about failed charging attempts. Also, I'd rather they spend money on chargers, not cameras in most cases.

Agreed. The owner/operator of the units should know when there is an issue even before we know about it. Have you ever been inside the city control rooms for traffic signals? Those people are on top of it. I saw a video somewhere (probably the Fully Charged YouTube channel) where they were in the control room in Beijing that monitors their electric public transport system and the charging. It was mind blowing a little bit.

Speaking of cameras......they are coming. I've seen several prototypes already. Purpose is to determine when the parking space is being occupied without actually charging. There is one that shocked the crap out of me because it can actually read the VIN through the windshield and cross reference it to known users in their database.

 

[mkhuffman]

No more free charging!

Aren’t car company’s using free enterprise and marketing by offering some free electricity to get you to buy their product over someone else’s.

they are paying EVGO, EA or whomever. I would think this is the American way, big business operating to sell more of their product.

Yes, and it is a pretty good marketing ploy to convince people to buy a BEV. But the result is less DCFC capacity for people who actually need a charge to make it to the next stop.

 

[kennethjk]

No more free charging!


Yes, and it is a pretty good marketing ploy to convince people to buy a BEV. But the result is less DCFC capacity for people who actually need a charge to make it to the next stop.

Capitalism at its finest. soon enough they will realize they don’t need it.

Malls have level 2 chargers for free to draw people in to shop. Unfortunately they aren’t really cared for.

Went to a local Wagman’s yesterday , I believe their ChargePoint stations are pay stations and they have been out of service for about 6 months. Crazy, that’s as bad as fast chargers not working since it scares people away From buying an EV.

EVGO recently upgraded their stations at a local mall to faster speeds. It’s coming but probably not fast enough

 

[DevSecOps]

From your logic the chargers need to sit idle except for "travelers in need". Should there be a toteboard, so that those who could possibly make it home without charging aren't allowed to charge either?

You're obviously the type of person who brings their child into the ER when they sneeze instead of seeking a doctors appointment. No consideration for those who actually require the services therein. It's not about me, it's about common sense and courtesy to everyone who needs them (for the 4th time).

Again, to have any chance of being profitable the chargers have to be in use. As the existing chargers get more use, more will be added. Constantly idle chargers don't help anyone.

If you make something that people want or need, they will buy it. More so than anything, fuel is one of those things that we all pay for daily. There is no lack of demand for electrons.

So yes, your short term inconvenience is acceptable if EA and EVgo and the rest can start making money.

Thanks for telling me what should be acceptable to me. Sometimes you just need to roll your eyes and move on.

 

[AZBill]

Because a level 2 charger, on a trip, is an absolute waste (except overnight). I can say with great certainty that at every place you stop, you can probably find a level 2 charger within 10 miles, and if you ask nicely they'll let you charge if you can't make it to the next DC charger.

Yeah, that is why a guy with an EV6 just had to get towed from Dateland Arizona. Not a level 2 anywhere between Yuma and Buckeye.

 

[RickMachE]

Looks like he wasn't the brightest bulb, given the big orange wrench in Dateland.

So let's take this example further. This is a 149 mile drive. Totally doable in an EV6. Looking at the history in PlugShare, they show all down now but worked on the 19th, 20th...

I'd say it's all on him.

 

[Billyk24]

Because a level 2 charger, on a trip, is an absolute waste (except overnight). I can say with great certainty that at every place you stop, you can probably find a level 2 charger within 10 miles, and if you ask nicely they'll let you charge if you can't make it to the next DC charger.

Not true in the UP of Michigan or Northern Wisconsin.

 

[RickMachE]

Not true in the UP of Michigan or Northern Wisconsin.

You're not understanding what I said.

The point was that if the DC location isn't working, you're hosed.
There is no DC charging in the UP or Northern Wisconsin.

Virtually everywhere there is an EA location, within 10 miles there is level 2 charging. In Jimrpa's example, it's 26 miles to the nearest level 2. That's one of the few exceptions.

 

[machefan2022]

L1 and L2 is much simpler tech. CCS standard has tons of safe guards built into it so you don't end up with a fireball. The spec can be easily summarized as when there is any doubt, don't charge. When dealing with that amount of current things can go bad really fast, plus the need for extra things like cable cooling, and heat dissipaters.

I would like to see them install L2's but I'm guessing they don't see it as economically viable. It was an interesting through, I did a quick search and I don't see anyone selling 480v 3 phase L2 EVSE equipment. The typical commercial L2 charger is 220v 1 phase. DCFC run off of 480v 3 phase, so they can't simply install a normal L2 charger, they would need either a second electrical service or a step transformer both options would add costs. So at that point I'm sure some executives would be questioning are they better off adding an a few L2 chargers or one additional lower end DCFC.

This is likely already there in some capacity. The user interface on the stations run on 120v. So i'm guessing there is a electrical panel/ meter that is 240v for the station.

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