Burned out wall receptacle and plug. ugh (JuiceBox 40)

[agoldman]

In think what this all shows is that there probably needs to be a stricter protocol of at least more specific requirements and recommendations for safe plug in home chargers using 50 amp circuits. We are in the know a little bit here, but not everyone has a capable electrician or reads the forums. Yeah, let the buyer beware, but this can be dangerous stuff and the average homeowner could use a little more help on all of this. Many electricians will just put in your basic connections without much more thought or advise. These high powered home EV charging installations are still a relatively new thing for your typical home handyman/electrician.

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[dafish]

OP:

Installed and used a fair number of high output jacks in my time. A few comments from my experiences:

1) Ambient temperature correction, while part of code, is generally disregarded unless limits are being pushed in extreme temperatures. To a large degree it's also moot - even NM-B #6 copper is good to 55 amp.

2) I've used box store, Amazon, and etc connections at 30 and 50 amps many times and never had a problem as a result.

3) I have seen, and suspect here, stranded copper wire working loose in the screw connection. It seems to crush and re-align after initial tightening. I've taken to tightening screws down and not putting them away in until the next day. They are invariably loose. I tighten them again and then finish install and button up.

Given those experiences I suspect you had a loose leg/wire connection that started arcing. Once that happened it was on.

As to 32 amp vs 40... that reads like a whole bunch of over-reaction to me. Do you have any idea how common this is? "Continuous Use", the language being used for the 80% derate, applies to every HVAC installation, range, clothes dryers, and etc here in the US. To each his own of course, but most of us have 2-3 circuits wired in our homes wired just that way.

 

[Maquis]

I was looking at a ChargePoint EVSE for home in Florida and I found this

“Why isn’t the input power cable longer?

12 inches is maximum length allowed under National Electrical Code (NEC).”

I wonder why the Juicebox power is much longer?

The UL spec (and NEC) allow an input cable longer than 12” as long as the plug itself contains GFCI protection.

 

[kennethjk]

The UL spec (and NEC) allow an input cable longer than 12” as long as the plug itself contains GFCI protection.

I went to Juicebox site and saw this

“ Recommend against GFI circuit breaker. JuiceBox performs all self-test functions and meets the GFI requirement for UL certification.”

 

[Maquis]

I went to Juicebox site and saw this

“ Recommend against GFI circuit breaker. JuiceBox performs all self-test functions and meets the GFI requirement for UL certification.”

The problem is when you are on the 2020 NEC, a 50A receptacle outlet is required to be GFCI protected at the breaker. This creates a conflict that hopefully Enelex will address in the near future.

 

[OldEVGuy]

The problem is when you are on the 2020 NEC, a 50A receptacle outlet is required to be GFCI protected at the breaker. This creates a conflict that hopefully Enelex will address in the near future.

When I had my JuiceBox 40 installed in 2020, I asked them about this issue. Here’s they’re response:

We understand certain state electrical codes require GFCI breakers so the JuiceBox can operate with these types of breakers. We simply recommend against them if possible. If it's not possible in your state, that's fine.

 

[kennethjk]

The problem is when you are on the 2020 NEC, a 50A receptacle outlet is required to be GFCI protected at the breaker. This creates a conflict that hopefully Enelex will address in the near future.

My electrician did not install a GFCI breaker. Unit is in my garage if that matters. He is licensed and knows what he is doing from what I’ve heard, hope that’s right

 

[Maquis]

My electrician did not install a GFCI breaker. Unit is in my garage if that matters. He is licensed and knows what he is doing from what I’ve heard, hope that’s right

Your location shows NYC. I don’t think you’re on the 2020 NEC yet.

 

[Scooby24]

My electrician did not install a GFCI breaker. Unit is in my garage if that matters. He is licensed and knows what he is doing from what I’ve heard, hope that’s right

Same here...the NEC Code prior to 2020 didn't require GFCI and I had mine installed before that code change.

I believe (strongly) that the GFCI breakers are redundant as most all reputable EVSE's already have that function and we just end up having false trips by having it on the breaker as well as the EVSE.

 

[Maquis]

Same here...the NEC Code prior to 2020 didn't require GFCI and I had mine installed before that code change.

I believe (strongly) that the GFCI breakers are redundant as most all reputable EVSE's already have that function and we just end up having false trips by having it on the breaker as well as the EVSE.

The purpose of having the receptacle protected is in case you contact the prongs when plugging / unplugging. The GFCI in the EVSE doesn’t protect against that.
Cascading GFCIs will not cause false trips if they are designed properly. Most false trips seen in conjunction with EVSEs are caused by the circuitry in the EVSE that detects a missing ground wire.

 

[kennethjk]

The purpose of having the receptacle protected is in case you contact the prongs when plugging / unplugging. The GFCI in the EVSE doesn’t protect against that.
Cascading GFCIs will not cause false trips if they are designed properly. Most false trips seen in conjunction with EVSEs are caused by the circuitry in the EVSE that detects a missing ground wire.

I guess one answer is always turn breaker off before unplugging or plugging in EVSE

 

[MachLovin]

I have the Juice Box 40. My electrician initially installed a commercial grade outlet. But, after reading the forum and and having a better understanding regarding these outlet, I too upgraded to an Industrial grade outlet. I appreciate everyone's input and advice on this topic. And, an extra $10 spent on a high grade outlet, for peace of mind... no brainer for me.

 

[i8iridium]

I guess one answer is always turn breaker off before unplugging or plugging in EVSE

Well, it's not just an EV outlet. The code has to treat it the same as any other receptacle that can be used for anything. RV or welder come to mind.

 

[Maquis]

I guess one answer is always turn breaker off before unplugging or plugging in EVSE

Too logical. Safety codes’ main purpose is to thwart Darwin. ?

 

[kennethjk]

Well, it's not just an EV outlet. The code has to treat it the same as any other receptacle that can be used for anything. RV or welder come to mind.

True, but I guess my area doesn’t require it. I Live about 25 miles north of NYC. Seems to make sense to have it but it is what it is.

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