Need some advice...

[MyLittlePony24]

Hello all.

First time poster...long time lurker lol.

I really want to take my Mach E on it's first road trip to Vegas this week because I really love to drive it, but with the heat advisory in SoCal as well as the projected 110+ degree temps in Vegas, I'm hesitant.

I have a 2021 GT that hasn't had the recall update installed yet ( I was waiting for the over air update).

Would you risk it or do you think this situation is just begging for trouble and should go ICE instead?

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[RickMachE]

I would not take it without the update.

 

[KrazyEd]

I live in Vegas and have had my MME Premium for about a year and a half. Never had any issues
because of the heat. Any time that I have traveled to California in the past during the summer, I
have gone at night. Still hot, but not with the sun beating down on the vehicle. I see MMEs here from
other states all the time. Actually had a MME get together here yesterday. I have had a few road
trips with mine. One of 1500 miles and several that were a couple hundred. My only concern would
be that almost all of the contactor issues have been with the GT series. If you have the patience to
drive under the speed limit, and the ability to start out after dark, I would probably go for it.

 

[Southern92]

Hopefully a more technically minded person will reply, but I'd say go for it!
The A/C will work a little harder, but the ambient temperature does not affect the HVBJB too much (again hopefully someone more knowledgeable jumps in). So if you would drive there in 95 temps, 110(+) shouldn't really matter.

 

[jbirdzee]

Im in the not recommended camp. My MME Premium just got the hvbjb failure today after a hill climb, but i was able to get home with reduced power because of the update. Only 65F in WNY today.

 

[DevSecOps]

It's all about your risk tolerance. If you would be the kind of person pissed off, stressed out or generally ill based on failure then don't take it. I drove mine 23k miles before failure.

For some people the recall software let them know ahead of failure and for others it did absolutely nothing and the HVBJB failed as if there was no software installed. In my case I got notification of impending failure and 200 miles later, while on the same drive, it decided enough was enough and threw SSN. Remember, the recall does NOT prevent failure.

I don't worry about things in general and I had a feeling mine would go out. Sure enough it did. I was expecting it to and it was just another chapter in life. But everyone is different.

I think everyone who owns an MME prior to June of this year should expect failure at some point. Be prepared for it and let it happen. That's my take.

 

[heisnuts]

I would be a little hesitant without the update. Not because I think the hot temps might cause a failure, but if a failure were to occur at one of the charging stations in the middle of nowhere you would be stuck in the hot temps waiting on a tow without A/C… And we know how long it can take sometimes to find a towing company who will actually accept the tow…

Another factor that would have me worried is the trip. You will have about 5 hours at freeway speeds approaching 80 MPH. If you look at a lot of the failures here they tend to occur on highway trips where there have been hours of freeway speeds. Both of my failures have been after long drives out in the country at those type of speeds and wide open throttle events. At least with the recall software the system gave me advance warning so I could drive the car to my dealer rather than having to tow it. I am currently in the waiting pattern now for my third HVBJB.

 

[RickMachE]

This ^^^^.

110 waiting hours for a tow. Nope.

 

[scoopman]

Yeah take it from me, I wouldn't do that because the downside if you get bricked is really bad with that kind of heat, and a hassle at best being away from home. You'd spend your vacation in 110deg heat waiting for a Ford Roadside-called tow truck, I would be trying to avoid that.

I'd go ICE, and even if you do, I would get yourself the software recall anyway so that you don't get stranded even driving locally.

 

[MyLittlePony24]

Thanks everyone for all of your input! I'm gonna play it safe and go ICE, even though I'm sad to leave my Pony behind.

Like a few of you said, it's the waiting for the tow in 110 degree weather that is the deal breaker.

@scoopman I will definitely schedule the recall soon so I can try to prevent getting stranded locally for when it looks like the inevitable failure comes.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Is there really any correlation between ambient air temp and probability of failure? Unless I'm misunderstanding the failure, given the extremely high temperature required to *weld* the contactors together (like north of 1700F degrees for steel no?) I would suspect ambient air temp has no effect.

Any engineers out there to weigh-in?

 

[DevSecOps]

Is there really any correlation between ambient air temp and probability of failure? Unless I'm misunderstanding the failure, given the extremely high temperature required to *weld* the contactors together (like north of 1700F degrees for steel no?) I would suspect ambient air temp has no effect.

Any engineers out there to weigh-in?

It's the internet. It's some peoples job to make things up, instill fear and ignore all factual evidence.

Ambient temp doesn't have anything to do with it that I've seen.

 

[KevinS]

I hope @Ford Motor Company is paying attention to the fact that their customers are having to having these legitimate conversations about the probability of failure during a trip amongst themselves in a prominent MME forum.

Doesn't reflect well on the product, online or offline.

 

[Mach-e4x]

I would be a little hesitant without the update. Not because I think the hot temps might cause a failure, but if a failure were to occur at one of the charging stations in the middle of nowhere you would be stuck in the hot temps waiting on a tow without A/C… And we know how long it can take sometimes to find a towing company who will actually accept the tow…

Another factor that would have me worried is the trip. You will have about 5 hours at freeway speeds approaching 80 MPH. If you look at a lot of the failures here they tend to occur on highway trips where there have been hours of freeway speeds. Both of my failures have been after long drives out in the country at those type of speeds and wide open throttle events. At least with the recall software the system gave me advance warning so I could drive the car to my dealer rather than having to tow it. I am currently in the waiting pattern now for my third HVBJB.

Hi -I have a couple of questions.
5 hours on the highway without stopping? Hours of fast driving then fast charging right after is something I haven't done yet.
How long and how often are your "wide open throttle events"?
I don't think I ever put the pedal to the floor.
Three HVBJB's?
How long does the service take to replace the HVB Junction Box?

 

[RWG]

At first thought, one would not think ambient temps will contribute to contactor failure, but then, since we don't know actual component operational temperature data, it is hard to say.

Here is the conundrum, it is now clear that under the right circumstances, the contactors can overheat and in some cases actually melt, weld, etc. However, how hot does the contactor and surrounding circuitry get when operational and the vehicle is pulling a lot of amps?

Based on my experience with replacing failed electrical contractors used in high voltage, high amperage systems, here are some thoughts:

Pulling long a hill/incline or jamming the accelerator a lot or using a DC fast charging will move a lot of power through the contactors. When you draw high amperage, you generate heat. When you generate heat, you should get rid of it so the electrical system components do not suffer potential heat related collateral damage. I believe the MME has design provisions to open the front louvers, let in ambient air, to cool components and that would make engineering/design sense. What we don't know is what the design criteria is for the heat sensor threshold and software parameters. i.e. what is the normal operating temps?

What I do know, for a fact, is that when I charge my MME in the garage, @ 40 Amps, the power cables heat up to about 120F to 130F. This temp is not a problem since it is well within the temperature design thresholds of the cables,materials, plugs, etc. I also know the cable temps are higher in the summer than the winter, I have tested/measured the temps. The rate at which heat from the cables escapes into the surrounding air is related to the ambient temperature. i.e. the warmer the ambient, the slower the heat transfer to the ambient air is, AND if I were to insulate those cables, and reduce the rate of "heat rejection"/ transfer, they would get very hot, quickly. I also know that if I directed air flow over the cables, I could drop the temps. These are the the basic principles of thermodynamics.

Regarding collateral damage to electrical system components. Just because you had a high amperage draw session at a given time, it doesn't mean you will have a failure during that event. With electrical components, collateral heat damage can be cumulative. i.e. what happens today, may lead to failure hours, days, weeks, months later. Why? Because thermal cycling, ( constant raising and lower temps.) can be detrimental to electric system components and every thermal cycling event poses some risk of collateral damage. The risk is proportionate to heat levels, duration time, frequency and component design temperature thresholds.

This means you may have driven up the "grapevine" in California one day, experienced some system collateral damage but the MME operated fine and you had no reason to be concerned. Then the next day, while driving on flat terrain in the San Joaquin Valley, you experienced total system failure.

I have read that the contactors are "hermetically sealed". If true, that would make good engineering/design sense because contactor components operated in an inert gas atmosphere would have significantly extended contactor life by minimizing the negative impact of the electrical arc created during normal contactor component operation. In a regular oxygen atmosphere the electrical arc would create ozone, leave a carbon trail, and create other highly corrosive electrical circuit compromising "nasties" that will NOT go away. . . . . ever, unless you replace the component.

A hermetically sealed contactor has heat design limits too, just like any other electrical device. What are those design limits? I don't know, but I do know, that after repairing dozens and dozens of high amperage/heat voltage systems, heat is your enemy. Whenever there is to much for to long, it makes things loose, leak or melt and failures happen. I also know that I have never seen a contactor that lasts forever. At some point, they all fail, it is to be expected.

In my opinion if anyone suggests this problem is solved with software is full of BS. Furthermore to design this vehicle with contactors buried in the battery pack is a basic, design error. It would be about the same as designing a car where you had to take off the fenders to change a tire. Kinda dumb. . . .

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