Solid State Development

[Guss-E 2021]

Sure is a lot of plant and liquid investment pouring into this technology.

pv magazine International: The mobility rEVolution: Rapid-charging solid-state battery moves toward commercialization.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/09...state-battery-moves-toward-commercialization/

Sponsored

 

[MnSparty38]

Curious that since many of these factories will be built in Japan, Germany, US, where their materials will be something exes from. I believe many of these solid states still need minerals that are tough to get?

also, do you think already produced cars will eventually be able to be retrofitted with solid state batteries, or will a new car be needed?

 

[Raymondjram]

Curious that since many of these factories will be built in Japan, Germany, US, where their materials will be something exes from. I believe many of these solid states still need minerals that are tough to get?

also, do you think already produced cars will eventually be able to be retrofitted with solid state batteries, or will a new car be needed?

Probably a new car design. It is extremely difficult to retrofit existing or past built electric cars with newer cell chemistry since they need different voltages and dimensions per battery. Right now, the best chemistry is LFP or lithium-iron- phosphate, yet Ford cannot retrofit the present Mach-E with it. The next generation may use it.

 

[Garbone]

Probably a new car design. It is extremely difficult to retrofit existing or past built electric cars with newer cell chemistry since they need different voltages and dimensions per battery. Right now, the best chemistry is LFP or lithium-iron- phosphate, yet Ford cannot retrofit the present Mach-E with it. The next generation may use it.

I do not agree with this 100 percent.

One can look at Leafs as an example but they lacked cooling systems and we're by design more compact that lends to less flexibility in form factor.

If energy density does indeed increase the big limitation will be electronics and the charger circuits ability to adjust to a new curve. Battery pack voltage is determined by the architecture of bus bars in the pack. Although solid state may enable higher voltages it does not mean a less optimal lower voltage retrofit pack is undoable. It all comes down to if there will be a demand to recell old EVs.

We know LFP is coming for the MachE. I am sure we will know about it when the change is made but probably not before. LFP is great for Ford's bottom line, but I am happy to have a build before they nuke the SR packs. Just my opinion.

 

[sotek2345]

Probably a new car design. It is extremely difficult to retrofit existing or past built electric cars with newer cell chemistry since they need different voltages and dimensions per battery. Right now, the best chemistry is LFP or lithium-iron- phosphate, yet Ford cannot retrofit the present Mach-E with it. The next generation may use it.

Not sure I agree that LFP is the best. It has some advantages (lower cost, more charge cycles, can stay at 100%, doesn't combust if damaged), but also some big disadvantages (lower power density and more cold weather range reduction) as compared to lithium Ion.

LFP works good for lower end EVs (shorter range, lower power) where cost is the biggest factor - especially those sold in places that don't really get a winter. Lithium-Ion has better overall performance though (power and weight).

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Not sure I agree that LFP is the best. It has some advantages (lower cost, more charge cycles, can stay at 100%, doesn't combust if damaged), but also some big disadvantages (lower power density and more cold weather range reduction) as compared to lithium Ion.

LFP works good for lower end EVs (shorter range, lower power) where cost is the biggest factor - especially those sold in places that don't really get a winter. Lithium-Ion has better overall performance though (power and weight).

LFP batteries are also heavier I believe. Disappointing that weight is going in the wrong direction here.

Still, my take away from this is that the industry is pushing forward or at least trying to. With so much financial will behind battery propulsion advancement, good things should come. If only we had some Vibranium. ?

 

[sotek2345]

LFP batteries are also heavier I believe. Disappointing that weight is going in the wrong direction here.

Still, my take away from this is that the industry is pushing forward or at least trying to. With so much financial will behind battery propulsion advancement, good things should come. If only we had some Vibranium. ?

Yeah - when I said "lower power", I forgot the word "density". So to get the same energy (kwHrs), you need both more size and more weight.

 

[imstriker]

Definitely interesting times. We are still quite a way away from solid state batteries taking over. For now, I'm just going to enjoy my car and not worry about it. That said, I did pick up some shares of Solid Power a while back when Ford and BMW announced their involvement with them. Might pay off some day....

 

[MnSparty38]

That said, I did pick up some shares of Solid Power a while back when Ford and BMW announced their involvement with them. Might pay off some day....

Agree, added the article from the OP as my research list for potential investments…

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Agree, added the article from the OP as my research list for potential investments…

And no mention of QuantumScape at all.

 

[dtbaker61]

Curious that since many of these factories will be built in Japan, Germany, US, where their materials will be something exes from. I believe many of these solid states still need minerals that are tough to get?

also, do you think already produced cars will eventually be able to be retrofitted with solid state batteries, or will a new car be needed?

lithium is NOT tough to get.... it can be a little tricky to process depending what it is bonded to. The additives like cobalt that are currently added in tiny quantities for better cold weather performance many not be needed with solid state, so thats a good thing!

rare earth magnets (in motors) may be the stuff that is hard to produce in quantity.....

the best news is that by the time our car batteries are 'tired', the solid state production lines should be up and running, and if replacement battery trays are designed to fit in the same space, should be 'plug and play' replacements with software revision for charge curves....

 

[Space Ghost GT]

This is why buying a Mach-e is a a terrible idea. Lease or ford options!!!! You won’t want your car in 5 years when everything has changed. The batteries the chargers everything. If you haven’t been involved in any type of R/C car or drone racing you might not understand. When a new tech comes out the old is instantly useless and worth penny’s as no one wants a car that will take 45-60 minutes to charge with power limitations at dc fast charger when that new one does it in 2-3 minutes is cheaper lighter and faster. How’s the market for 5 year old gaming rigs? Same thing.

 

[Space Ghost GT]

Curious that since many of these factories will be built in Japan, Germany, US, where their materials will be something exes from. I believe many of these solid states still need minerals that are tough to get?

also, do you think already produced cars will eventually be able to be retrofitted with solid state batteries, or will a new car be needed?

No, sodium and silicon are the most abundant elements on earth. The mineral wars will be over when solid state comes out.

 

[Blue highway]

Curious that since many of these factories will be built in Japan, Germany, US, where their materials will be something exes from. I believe many of these solid states still need minerals that are tough to get?

also, do you think already produced cars will eventually be able to be retrofitted with solid state batteries, or will a new car be needed?

By the time existing cars need new batteries in big numbers, the world will have changed. I expect it to more likely that people put in refurb batteries in old cars the way people put refurb batteries in an old Tesla, or Pirus today.

 

[TTort]

If I still have my Mach-E in 8 years, I think newer battery tech will be available to swap in at a reasonable price.

Sponsored