EV Charger Prewire in new construction home

[gordonf238]

Wife and I have been looking to move to the Denver area for some time now. She's got family there, and we love the outdoors, the dry air, etc. Last summer we came across a nice master plan community with great trails, close to the rockies, etc. With 4 kids under one roof, the wife (and her Mach-E) spends most of her time dropping them off at various activities, food shopping, etc. It's an integral part of our household.

So we went into contract last summer with a big-name builder in this community. They had great floor plans that satisfied our needs. In their press release, they talk about solar power, and EV charger pre-wiring available in all markets.

So we mention this to the sales lady at a local office while designing our plan. She mentioned that all electrical upgrades are added to the order after the deposit is made. Okay.

After signing the purchase order, and placing a 10% deposit, it turns out, they can only do a 220V/30A prewire. Anything higher (like a 50A) prewire would require we upgrade our electrical panel from 200A to 325A at a cost of $16,000. At least that's what the construction manager says. Yup, you read that right - $16,000.

So here you have a family of 6, paying good money for a new construction from a company that advertises EV pre-wire, but later claims the panel is actually insufficient and you need to fork over another $16,000 to add a single 50A circuit. If it sounds like bull, that's because it probably is.

Funny thing is, the cooktop in the kitchen was going to be 220V/50A (Romex 8/3 wire). However, we opted for a gas cooktop, so the load is obviously there.

It's one of those situations where retaining legal counsel on grounds of false advertising and contract breach would easily cost more than running the 8/3 cable after we close. My only annoyance is that the panel is on the opposite side of the house vs. the garage. Which will require exterior conduit (subject to HOA approval) and whatnot.

What a pain in the arse. Thanks for reading guys.

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[kdonnel]

After signing the purchase order, and placing a 10% deposit, it turns out, they can only do a 220V/30A prewire. Anything higher (like a 50A) prewire would require we upgrade our electrical panel from 200A to 325A at a cost of $16,000. At least that's what the construction manager says. Yup, you read that right - $16,000.

Makes the $1500 I paid to upgrade to 400A service during construction 17 years ago a big bargain!

Don't look so down on a 30A prewire.

By the time I bought an EV the basement had been finished at my house which limited access to the twin 200A electrical panels. Rather than rip up drywall to install a 50A circuit in the garage I was able to extend a 30A circuit in the kitchen that would be used by an electric cooktop(we had switched to gas a few years before).

For 3 years now I have been exclusively charging on that 30A circuit. For 2 years just the Chevy Bolt, but for the past year I have been charging two cars using that 30A circuit, sharing a single ChargePoint Home Flex.

There has not been a single time where I wished the outlet was a 50A circuit.

I think 30A is the best compromise for EV charging. Fast enough for the vast majority of people, small enough amps that most panels have the needed capacity, and 10/3 romex is much cheaper than the wire needed for a 50A circuit.

 

[SnBGC]

Wife and I have been looking to move to the Denver area for some time now. She's got family there, and we love the outdoors, the dry air, etc. Last summer we came across a nice master plan community with great trails, close to the rockies, etc. With 4 kids under one roof, the wife (and her Mach-E) spends most of her time dropping them off at various activities, food shopping, etc. It's an integral part of our household.

So we went into contract last summer with a big-name builder in this community. They had great floor plans that satisfied our needs. In their press release, they talk about solar power, and EV charger pre-wiring available in all markets.

So we mention this to the sales lady at a local office while designing our plan. She mentioned that all electrical upgrades are added to the order after the deposit is made. Okay.

After signing the purchase order, and placing a 10% deposit, it turns out, they can only do a 220V/30A prewire. Anything higher (like a 50A) prewire would require we upgrade our electrical panel from 200A to 325A at a cost of $16,000. At least that's what the construction manager says. Yup, you read that right - $16,000.

So here you have a family of 6, paying good money for a new construction from a company that advertises EV pre-wire, but later claims the panel is actually insufficient and you need to fork over another $16,000 to add a single 50A circuit. If it sounds like bull, that's because it probably is.

Funny thing is, the cooktop in the kitchen was going to be 220V/50A (Romex 8/3 wire). However, we opted for a gas cooktop, so the load is obviously there.

It's one of those situations where retaining legal counsel on grounds of false advertising and contract breach would easily cost more than running the 8/3 cable after we close. My only annoyance is that the panel is on the opposite side of the house vs. the garage. Which will require exterior conduit (subject to HOA approval) and whatnot.

What a pain in the arse. Thanks for reading guys.

Tell them that you cook in the garage and therefore you would like your 14-50 outlet installed in there please.

That might work....

 

[Earplug]

Ask for aa separate 100-amp meter and panel in the garage. Going to 325-amp service in a residential community requires some extra engineering and is not common.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Wife and I have been looking to move to the Denver area for some time now. She's got family there, and we love the outdoors, the dry air, etc. Last summer we came across a nice master plan community with great trails, close to the rockies, etc. With 4 kids under one roof, the wife (and her Mach-E) spends most of her time dropping them off at various activities, food shopping, etc. It's an integral part of our household.

So we went into contract last summer with a big-name builder in this community. They had great floor plans that satisfied our needs. In their press release, they talk about solar power, and EV charger pre-wiring available in all markets.

So we mention this to the sales lady at a local office while designing our plan. She mentioned that all electrical upgrades are added to the order after the deposit is made. Okay.

After signing the purchase order, and placing a 10% deposit, it turns out, they can only do a 220V/30A prewire. Anything higher (like a 50A) prewire would require we upgrade our electrical panel from 200A to 325A at a cost of $16,000. At least that's what the construction manager says. Yup, you read that right - $16,000.

So here you have a family of 6, paying good money for a new construction from a company that advertises EV pre-wire, but later claims the panel is actually insufficient and you need to fork over another $16,000 to add a single 50A circuit. If it sounds like bull, that's because it probably is.

Funny thing is, the cooktop in the kitchen was going to be 220V/50A (Romex 8/3 wire). However, we opted for a gas cooktop, so the load is obviously there.

It's one of those situations where retaining legal counsel on grounds of false advertising and contract breach would easily cost more than running the 8/3 cable after we close. My only annoyance is that the panel is on the opposite side of the house vs. the garage. Which will require exterior conduit (subject to HOA approval) and whatnot.

What a pain in the arse. Thanks for reading guys.

That doesn’t sound right. Ask them to share the calculations that support a service upgrade being required. It would have to be a very large house to require that upgrade.

If you could share the house square footage and a list of major electrical appliances (A/C, electric water heater, electric furnace, range, oven, cooktop, whirlpool, baseboard heat, garage heat, etc) I can do a calculation for you as a sanity check. I have a feeling 200A service will be fine.

Some builders really turn building a new house into an add-ons game where they will charge way more than the cost of some features, which are almost all pure profit.

 

[kdonnel]

Ask for aa separate 100-amp meter and panel in the garage. Going to 325-amp service in a residential community requires some extra engineering and is not common.

About half the homes in my neighborhood opted for the $1500 upgrade to 400A service in the form of twin 200A panels fed by a single 320A meter from the power company.

It was listed on the work order as 400 amp split service.

Other than installing the correct meter base, I don't remember there being any extra engineering. I guess the power company may have run larger service wire to the meter but there was either no additional charge for that or it was built into the $1500 upgrade fee.

 

[gordonf238]

Hey all,
Thanks for your replies. Some useful stuff here. I've gone ahead and requested the load calculation to see how they arrived at the 325a panel.

While I'm not hoping for much in the way of cooperation, I may have to ultimately settle for a 30A circuit that charges at 15 miles/hr.

Can't win them all. Thanks guys.

 

[bshaw]

I don't know how exactly you phrased the request to your builder, but I've found that leaving the "EV" part out of any electrical upgrade discussion tends to make things easier (cheaper).
EVs are still very much a luxury item, and your builder knows they can extract a premium for connecting your luxury car to the home they are building. That, and because 240V charging is not in your contract they can charge whatever they want.

Both our prior and current home, I had electricians quote a 50A circuit with a 14-50 outlet. And I told them exactly where I wanted the outlet. Code inspector then checks the breaker, wiring and outlet. After that, it's up to you what you use that outlet for.

There is no such thing as "EV pre-wiring", that is just a way to make a standard electrical job more expensive.
It may even be to your benefit to say you don't have an EV or EVSE yet, but want to put a welder in your garage. Too late for your situation to try this strategy, but maybe others can benefit from reading.

 

[ChasingCoral]

After signing the purchase order, and placing a 10% deposit, it turns out, they can only do a 220V/30A prewire. Anything higher (like a 50A) prewire would require we upgrade our electrical panel from 200A to 325A at a cost of $16,000. At least that's what the construction manager says. Yup, you read that right - $16,000.

We have a 24A charger that we share between a Mach E and a Lightning. It's a little light for the Lightning but is fine for the Mach E.

Just save yourself a load of money and buy a 24A charger. However, insist they use a heavy duty 30A outlet, not the $10 one from Home Depot. Better yet, when you move in have an electrician hard wire the 24A unit in place of the outlet.

 

[Logal727]

Wife and I have been looking to move to the Denver area for some time now. She's got family there, and we love the outdoors, the dry air, etc. Last summer we came across a nice master plan community with great trails, close to the rockies, etc. With 4 kids under one roof, the wife (and her Mach-E) spends most of her time dropping them off at various activities, food shopping, etc. It's an integral part of our household.

So we went into contract last summer with a big-name builder in this community. They had great floor plans that satisfied our needs. In their press release, they talk about solar power, and EV charger pre-wiring available in all markets.

So we mention this to the sales lady at a local office while designing our plan. She mentioned that all electrical upgrades are added to the order after the deposit is made. Okay.

After signing the purchase order, and placing a 10% deposit, it turns out, they can only do a 220V/30A prewire. Anything higher (like a 50A) prewire would require we upgrade our electrical panel from 200A to 325A at a cost of $16,000. At least that's what the construction manager says. Yup, you read that right - $16,000.

So here you have a family of 6, paying good money for a new construction from a company that advertises EV pre-wire, but later claims the panel is actually insufficient and you need to fork over another $16,000 to add a single 50A circuit. If it sounds like bull, that's because it probably is.

Funny thing is, the cooktop in the kitchen was going to be 220V/50A (Romex 8/3 wire). However, we opted for a gas cooktop, so the load is obviously there.

It's one of those situations where retaining legal counsel on grounds of false advertising and contract breach would easily cost more than running the 8/3 cable after we close. My only annoyance is that the panel is on the opposite side of the house vs. the garage. Which will require exterior conduit (subject to HOA approval) and whatnot.

What a pain in the arse. Thanks for reading guys.

The fact you need permission to run conduit on your house is a no deal situation for me, HOAs suck

 

[i8iridium]

That doesn’t sound right. Ask them to share the calculations that support a service upgrade being required. It would have to be a very large house to require that upgrade.

If you could share the house square footage and a list of major electrical appliances (A/C, electric water heater, electric furnace, range, oven, cooktop, whirlpool, baseboard heat, garage heat, etc) I can do a calculation for you as a sanity check. I have a feeling 200A service will be fine.

Some builders really turn building a new house into an add-ons game where they will charge way more than the cost of some features, which are almost all pure profit.

It's such a scam with some of these development construction homes. For them, it's like building a car, you just want one thing like upgraded wheels, but when you select it, it changes an entire package and cost twice as much. That's exactly what they're doing. Even for the simplest thing when we were building our house, they couldn't do it. I wanted a hose hookup in the garage and they just looked at me like i was crazy.

Fortunately, I chose not to finish my basement and I was able to do all the upgrades I wanted for very minimal effort.

 

[i8iridium]

The fact you need permission to run conduit on your house is a no deal situation for me, HOAs suck

For the OP, I'd double check that. I know HOAs can suck, but I feel if it's something that you can't see from the street, it would be hard for anyone to a. notice and b. need to get approval for. Especially if it's kept close to the foundation and painted to match. Do you not have a basement you can do some routing through?

 

[RickMachE]

For the OP, I'd double check that. I know HOAs can suck, but I feel if it's something that you can't see from the street, it would be hard for anyone to a. notice and b. need to get approval for. Especially if it's kept close to the foundation and painted to match. Do you not have a basement you can do some routing through?

We have an HOA because like many areas, the cities/towns don't want to support the infrastructure (roads), so they require an HOA.

Our HOA has no restrictions on EVs. However, a recent attempt by the board to get us to approve a sweeping change of the bylaws (failed miserably and 3/5 of board resigned before annual meeting) including language given them approval over EV charging stations. That was just one of many objectionable clauses.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

Funny thing is, the cooktop in the kitchen was going to be 220V/50A (Romex 8/3 wire). However, we opted for a gas cooktop, so the load is obviously there.

I wished you could have use the line someone suggested earlier, you'd like the cooktop outlet moved to the garage since you have a gas cooktop.

I know people that do use a cooktop/oven in their garage.

 

[gordonf238]

Well, I did ask to see their load calculations to see how they arrived at the conclusion that my house needs an electrical panel upgrade to accommodate a single 220V/50A circuit.

This is their reply:

"We are not obligated to share our load calculations with you. May I remind you, you’re under contract with a production builder. You have zero say in how we build this home, questioning our products, our pricing, our policies, our processes, etc. etc. We are not your personal general contractor building a customer home for you. We’re building your home the same as the other 60,000 we’ve built in Colorado over the last 45+ years. Clearly you aren’t comfortable with our set pricing on this option, simple solution….do not pay us for it. This matter is closed"

A real gem of a company. Can't wait to deal with them should any warranty issues arise.

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