Has Ford published a list of committed Model e Dealers yet?

[tannerk89]

Obviously I can’t speak for everyone but there is no need for DCFC if I live within 10 miles of a dealer (for me 6 miles.) I will charge at home. Also if I ever do DCFC I would rather have food, restroom, etc vs a stop at my dealer. The necessity of trained techs and specific equipment along with L2 chargers is already a requirement and makes business sense. I am just suggesting that the DCFC requirements do not make financial sense in many, if not all, cases. I do not think many of us would make that kind of a financial investment with no payback. If DCFC was lucrative then it would not take the VW settlement money and the huge government subsidy to get the equipment out in the public sector. Of course in my case if they opt out then there is no one to maintain my car or perform warranty work within 350 miles and no telling if that dealer would elect to opt in or not either.

I live 2 miles from a EA 4 stall 350kw station - it’s actually come in handy several times even though I have a 40A at my house. A few spur of the moment trips after getting home with 20% battery were still possible by having that DCFC right there. Otherwise would have had to take a gas guzzler truck, which I try to avoid if at all possible.

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[ChuckA]

I want to know which Ford dealerships I should be giving my business too, especially for service.

Dealers in CT just filed a class action suit against Ford to stop the EV investment ultimatum. My thought is that the fast charger requirement is not reasonable since it’s difficult to install and expensive. The payback may be “never”.

 

[dbsb3233]

This was the other part of a previous post I made.
The whole Model E dealer program is half baked.
What Ford misses is where the mature charging network solutions are going to go. Tesla is doing one-offs to show where this is going, with movies, diners,
The irony of the charging networks is that ice cars can refill in 5 minutes, and they have a whole convenience store, sandwich shop, Coffee bar, etc.
EV’s need 10, 20, 30, 40 minutes and they’re at a Wal-Mart, hotel, rest stop (nothing there).
The amount of time that it takes to charge, is an opportunity. Ford should create experiences at their dealerships. Test Drives, Car Updates while you wait, coffee, food, videos (auto makers pay to put their cars in shows and movies, show those).
Again, the problem lies in the dealer model. The same group of yahoos, that are marking up cars $5k a $20k+ don’t have the vision, creativity, or commitment to invest in or provide great customer experiences, and the dealer model and laws prevent the manufacturer from doing it themselves….
The manufacturers are going to have to get more creative.

While I agree with your irony comment, it's never going to work to make dealerships a frequent "destination draw". 10 added DCFC charges a day isn't anywhere near enough foot traffic to keep a snack bar or restaurant in business. Anyone wanting a test drive is already doing it. And it's doubtful you could do a software update while the car is actively DCFC charging.

A real destination that drivers find useful is something like the mall, or a Walmart, or Chipotle, or Kroger. That's already surviving on a flow of customers. Those are the types of places people have reason to frequent, not a car dealership.

 

[X1Nightmare]

Current EV certified Ford dealers already had to spend a bunch of money on training and equipment (like a special lift that doesn't damage the battery). Now coming back and requiring hundred of $thousands more for a DCFC charger is pretty crappy. Some that already spent a bunch probably wish they could get their money back from the first round now, had they known this was coming. Seems a little bait&switch-ish.

It was definitely bait and switch styled, I know all about the process and how much it entailed since I'm our EV certified tech and have been involved with things from the start lol. Saying I was glad we signed up, vs thinking the entire process was done the right way, are 2 different things. We are installing a DCFC soon, but honestly in our smallish town, I don't see it getting used very much, nor so I see it paying for itself in any reasonable time frame.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Here are the Ford chargers dealers will buy: https://rotunda.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/SearchResults.aspx?CKey=( (CatalogLevel1_Name_en-US:"Electric Vehicle Equipment" AND CatalogLevel2_Name_en-US:"EV Charging") )&CTitle=EV Charging&CSelectedKey=CatalogLevel2_Name_en-US:"EV Charging"|Electric Vehicle Equipment > EV Charging

The DC chargers are made by Power Electronics (NB 120 and NB 240) and are Ford branded.

Here are all the Model E equipment requirements: https://rotunda.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/RotundaEV.aspx

Wow, they're sure proud of that 4' dual post. nearly $1.1K for a metal post with mounting holes and cord storage. At least the 8' post has cord retractors built in. ??

 

[Logal727]

It was definitely bait and switch styled, I know all about the process and how much it entailed since I'm our EV certified tech and have been involved with things from the start lol. Saying I was glad we signed up, vs thinking the entire process was done the right way, are 2 different things. We are installing a DCFC soon, but honestly in our smallish town, I don't see it getting used very much, nor so I see it paying for itself in any reasonable time frame.

Honestly this is the first time I've encountered a Ford dealer EV tech on this forum, more of y'all need to be on here, it's good to see.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

the fast charger requirement is not reasonable since it’s difficult to install and expensive.

They’re not at all difficult to install. They simply require competent electricians and trained technicians. They are, however, relatively expensive to install.

 

[X1Nightmare]

Honestly this is the first time I've encountered a Ford dealer EV tech on this forum, more of y'all need to be on here, it's good to see.

Trust me I'm far from the norm lol, Im all about EVs, going as far to work at Tesla for some time to learn about them more before coming back to Ford. Hopefully my Mach-E will come in soon (any day now) so I can actually get some real-world experience with the car, besides test drives and PDIs lol. And I agree, would be nice to see some more of us in here!

 

[Logal727]

Trust me I'm far from the norm lol, Im all about EVs, going as far to work at Tesla for some time to learn about them more before coming back to Ford. Hopefully my Mach-E will come in soon (any day now) so I can actually get some real-world experience with the car, besides test drives and PDIs lol. And I agree, would be nice to see some more of us in here!

It makes me worried when I know more than the tech sometimes, and it's all because I've been on the forum, they should just pay you guys to read the forum lol.

 

[X1Nightmare]

It makes me worried when I know more than the tech sometimes, and it's all because I've been on the forum, they should just pay you guys to read the forum lol.

While I was gone from my dealer over the summer, I saw a "repair" by another tech there for a mobile charger concern... And after seeing his response/repair comments, I can definitely see why most people are sketched out currently at the dealers. I hope this changes in the future as the techs get more acclimated with the technology, but we have a good while to get there

 

[ChuckA]

They’re not at all difficult to install. They simply require competent electricians and trained technicians. They are, however, relatively expensive to install.

It requires the utility’s involvement to send that level of power to the property. When I say install I’m referring to the whole project cost. Actually we agree.

 

[AKgrampy]

I live 2 miles from a EA 4 stall 350kw station - it’s actually come in handy several times even though I have a 40A at my house. A few spur of the moment trips after getting home with 20% battery were still possible by having that DCFC right there. Otherwise would have had to take a gas guzzler truck, which I try to avoid if at all possible.

Good point but not at the local Ford dealer I would guess. The multi-billion dollar government program should be incentive enough to get plenty of DCFC throughout the country. Of course it will take an 80% subsidy to encourage the growth as it does not make business sense to build them without a subsidy. I support the program for government subsidization - just do not like dealers being forced into something like this. Now if Ford were to provide dealers with 80% of the cost to install the facilities . . . .?

 

[AKgrampy]

They’re not at all difficult to install. They simply require competent electricians and trained technicians. They are, however, relatively expensive to install.

Not to mention the potential monthly demand charge increase. For instance here in Fairbanks the demand charge is just over $22 per kW. So if local dealer installed two 150’s and both ran at the same time their electric bill would go up $7,000 a month. If the chargers operated about 70% of the day the overall cost would be about the same as L2 charging. That is why I believe a dealer should not be compelled to install DCFC until it makes business sense. I would rather the dealers focus on EV training for more techs, etc in order to provide better customer service.

 

[SnBGC]

Honestly, I think it doesn't make sense for most dealers to have DCFC on-premises. When I'm stopping at a fast charger, I want a place to buy food (or at least a bag of chips), soda, and a clean restroom. Now, I don't know about your Ford dealer, but mine ticks none of those boxes.

I think mandating every dealer install a DCFC is a mediocre way to plug gaps in the charging network in rural areas and just going to resort in unwanted and little used chargers in more built up areas.

The document I saw doesn't require DCFC. Just 5 L2 @ 80A or 4 L2 @ 80A plus 2 more at 32A. Either one will meet the requirent.

 

[bp99]

The irony of the charging networks is that ice cars can refill in 5 minutes, and they have a whole convenience store, sandwich shop, Coffee bar, etc.

Selling gas has little profit for the stations. All their profit comes from people spending a few minutes buying drinks, snacks and cigarettes. Even with the high volume of ICE vehicles filling up, the business model of gas stations is built around the convenience store (in and out shopping without requiring space or staff for long visits).

EV’s need 10, 20, 30, 40 minutes and they’re at a Wal-Mart, hotel, rest stop (nothing there).
The amount of time that it takes to charge, is an opportunity. Ford should create experiences at their dealerships. Test Drives, Car Updates while you wait, coffee, food, videos (auto makers pay to put their cars in shows and movies, show those).
Again, the problem lies in the dealer model. The same group of yahoos, that are marking up cars $5k a $20k+ don’t have the vision, creativity, or commitment to invest in or provide great customer experiences, and the dealer model and laws prevent the manufacturer from doing it themselves….
The manufacturers are going to have to get more creative.

The dealers do have the vision. There's no profit in DCFC. Spending additional money to improve the experience is just a sunk cost and they know that. Look at how much electricity has to be marked up to not lose money for charging. Look at the volume per pump/charger difference between gas and electricity. One pump can serve a car every 5 minutes whereas one charger one car every 40 minutes. How much mark up is required to achieve the same roi on electricity versus gas when volume per unit is 1/8? Snacks and drinks and test drives are not going to entice people to a DCFC station.

You need locations which occupy people for 40-60 minutes such as a sit down meal or shopping the person already had planned. For people on road trips, they just want a charger along their route, not a few mile detour to auto row.

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