Is Ford now doing HVBJB replacement for cars that have not failed?

[Kamuelaflyer]

Where how? Who? Show me. I haven't seen it. This information should be pinned clearly somewhere. All I've seen are a bunch of people saying the part number changed...well great that doesn't mean anything.

Forum search is your friend. In regards to the new HVBJB, you are wrong. The part was redesigned.

Sponsored

 

[mwtechy]

Forum search is your friend. In regards to the new HVBJB, you are wrong. The part was redesigned.

We all know it has been redesigned. The question I haven't seen someone answer is the differences between these two parts. https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-2406901-4.html and https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-2342963-4.html

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I'm not sure why we should assume anything at all. Their description of the problem specifically cites the SOBDMC, BECM and software. If they were "taking out of production" a HVBJB don't you think this is exactly where they would be mentioning that?

"Descriptive Information : The recalled Secondary On-Board Diagnostic Control Module (SOBDMC) and the Battery Energy Control Module (BECM) software were introduced into production on 05/27/2020 and was taken out of production on 05/24/2022."

They state can cause not will cause.

"Direct Current (“DC”) fast charging and repeated wide open pedal events can cause the high voltage battery main contactors to overheat."

"The design and part-to-part variation of the high voltage battery main contactor is not robust to the heat generated during DC fast charging and multiple wide open pedal events."

The design here could imply anything with the car including providing maximum power output during WOT regardless of prior WOT and DCFC events...but if we were to read just what they stated there are only certain scenarios and certain prior defective parts at issue here not all prior parts. The recall of course impacts all 100% because all cars had the prior software installed which permitted the scenarios described in the recall to damage the defective parts.

I'll try and reach that company later this week or possibly into the new year since holiday means they will be hard to get a hold of but I fully expect to run into an NDA to sign that I will not sign. A reasonable solution here is for someone to hire a 3rd party to test both parts to answer this question once and for all. I would prefer Ford pay for their mistakes but until someone has proven they made one it's kind of a circular conversation. I'm sorry you feel ripped off by Ford but 50k cars is no small mater and quite honestly a few a week is not nearly enough for this to be a 50k car problem.

Ok. Follow my logic here. I’m going to go slow for you.

1) mme made before May25 2022 may have a HVBJB that’s out of spec leading to failure.
2) Ford issue a software update that per their claim will prevent further damage
3) people with the software update still get SSN or SVS notice telling them that the HVBJB is fried and needs replacement.
4) given point 1-3 above Ford recall has not and can not prevent all damage of the HVBJB on cars built before May 25th
5) since Ford can not predict which cars built before May 25th will suffer catastrophic failure from the HVBJB, and their recall software has not prevented HVBJB meltdowns from cars built before May 25th, FORD should replace all HVBJB on the cars that may be affected.

 

[mwtechy]

Take it to

Ok. Follow my logic here. I’m going to go slow for you.

1) mme made before May25 2022 may have a HVBJB that’s out of spec leading to failure.
2) Ford issue a software update that per their claim will prevent further damage
3) people with the software update still get SSN or SVS notice telling them that the HVBJB is fried and needs replacement.
4) given point 1-3 above Ford recall has not and can not prevent all damage of the HVBJB on cars built before May 25th
5) since Ford can not predict which cars built before May 25th will suffer catastrophic failure from the HVBJB, and their recall software has not prevented HVBJB meltdowns from cars built before May 25th, FORD should replace all HVBJB on the cars that may be affected.

Take it to court, see what they say. Two people tried already.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Take it to


Take it to court, see what they say. Two people tried already.

cases get thrown out of court for a variety of reasons. Perhaps they didn’t have standing. Maybe their HVBJB didn’t fail yet hence they could not show that they suffer any harm….yet. Etc.

its all a process. Right now ford, Like all other companies are making a cost/risk analysis. Does it cost ford more to fix all 50k MME affected by the recall or suffer the cost of loss of reputation and perhaps a future lawsuit when someone is actually harmed by a failed HVBJB. Currently ford is choosing the later option. They did the same thing with the pinto gas tank fiasco. Ford is banking on the lack of EV options and overall vehicle shortages currently. But that won’t last forever. People will remember, tell their friends and choose accordingly.

only need one incident to go viral and put ford in the spotlight. Until then we’re stuck with having to deal with the hassle of replacing the HVBJB when it dies.

 

[mwtechy]

cases get thrown out of court for a variety of reasons. Perhaps they didn’t have standing. Maybe their HVBJB didn’t fail yet hence they could not show that they suffer any harm….yet. Etc.

its all a process. Right now ford, Like all other companies are making a cost/risk analysis. Does it cost ford more to fix all 50k MME affected by the recall or suffer the cost of loss of reputation and perhaps a future lawsuit when someone is actually harmed by a failed HVBJB. Currently ford is choosing the later option. They did the same thing with the pinto gas tank fiasco. Ford is banking on the lack of EV options and overall vehicle shortages currently. But that won’t last forever. People will remember, tell their friends and choose accordingly.

only need one incident to go viral and put ford in the spotlight. Until then we’re stuck with having to deal with the hassle of replacing the HVBJB when it dies.

So let's say you're Ford and you have a 0.58% failure rate on something that your engineers are telling you can be fixed with a software patch vs doing a 144 million dollar recall....what do you do?

From my perspective there is no evidence the new part is improved in any way, they might have changed the part to simply cut costs and reduce its weight who knows. From my perspective some number above 300 cars failing does not mean 50k cars have that same problem. You need more data to prove both things and I haven't seen it here yet. Even if it was here you'd need to prove Ford made the wrong choice when the recall started and that's a hard thing to do. Does carfax show these repairs under warranty? If so then a lawyer probably can get a good estimate.

From my perspective conversations like this are also giving pre May 25th 2022 owners unnecessary anxiety about driving a car Ford claims has been fixed. Threads like this also could eventually devalue the resell value of a perfect fine car....something I own that I don't want devalued based on speculation. ...and last I checked HVBJB failures don't blow up the car.

What is viral about a car telling you to goto a dealer...you eventually rolling into the dealer a week later...and they fix the car free of charge to you...oh and it only happens to maybe 1-2% of cars? Come on dood you're stretching and making a big deal over next to nothing. 3.2.1 I'm sure I'll get a failure tomorrow...but guess what it still will be less worse than the 12v battery dying on me.

 

[awp0]

So let's say you're Ford and you have a 0.58% failure rate on something that your engineers are telling you can be fixed with a software patch vs doing a 144 million dollar recall....what do you do?

From my perspective there is no evidence the new part is improved in any way, they might have changed the part to simply cut costs and reduce its weight who knows. From my perspective some number above 300 cars failing does not mean 50k cars have that same problem. You need more data to prove both things and I haven't seen it here yet. Even if it was here you'd need to prove Ford made the wrong choice when the recall started and that's a hard thing to do. Does carfax show these repairs under warranty? If so then a lawyer probably can get a good estimate.

From my perspective conversations like this are also giving pre May 25th 2022 owners unnecessary anxiety about driving a car Ford claims has been fixed. Threads like this also could eventually devalue the resell value of a perfect fine car....something I own that I don't want devalued based on speculation. ...and last I checked HVBJB failures don't blow up the car.

What is viral about a car telling you to goto a dealer...you eventually rolling into the dealer a week later...and they fix the car free of charge to you...oh and it only happens to maybe 1-2% of cars? Come on dood you're stretching and making a big deal over next to nothing. 3.2.1 I'm sure I'll get a failure tomorrow...but guess what it still will be less worse than the 12v battery dying on me.

Of course you can believe what you want, but I’m not sure you’ll get very far convincing people on this forum that the software update fixes anything, while we continue reading stories of failures. And you do know people are getting stranded, right? I can’t tell from your responses. Not everyone gets to “roll into the dealership a week later” as you’ve described it, at least not without a tow truck.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

So let's say you're Ford and you have a 0.58% failure rate on something that your engineers are telling you can be fixed with a software patch

The recall software was not designed to fix the problem. It was designed to decrease the frequency of the Stop Safely Now alerts due to HVBJB failures and allow the cars to be safely driven to a dealer for repair, thus having the effect of spreading out the failures of a critical and in short supply part into manageable numbers.

The part is in such short supply atm that Ford can either build cars or have a part replacement recall for around 80,000 cars (give or take), but not both. Will that change over time? No clue. Did Ford make the proper call on this? Again, I have no clue and my crystal ball is out of order, I’d have to use the Magic 8 Ball.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

So let's say you're Ford and you have a 0.58% failure rate on something that your engineers are telling you can be fixed with a software patch vs doing a 144 million dollar recall....what do you do?

From my perspective there is no evidence the new part is improved in any way, they might have changed the part to simply cut costs and reduce its weight who knows. From my perspective some number above 300 cars failing does not mean 50k cars have that same problem. You need more data to prove both things and I haven't seen it here yet. Even if it was here you'd need to prove Ford made the wrong choice when the recall started and that's a hard thing to do. Does carfax show these repairs under warranty? If so then a lawyer probably can get a good estimate.

From my perspective conversations like this are also giving pre May 25th 2022 owners unnecessary anxiety about driving a car Ford claims has been fixed. Threads like this also could eventually devalue the resell value of a perfect fine car....something I own that I don't want devalued based on speculation. ...and last I checked HVBJB failures don't blow up the car.

What is viral about a car telling you to goto a dealer...you eventually rolling into the dealer a week later...and they fix the car free of charge to you...oh and it only happens to maybe 1-2% of cars? Come on dood you're stretching and making a big deal over next to nothing. 3.2.1 I'm sure I'll get a failure tomorrow...but guess what it still will be less worse than the 12v battery dying on me.

If that’s what the engineers at ford are telling corporate. Then they have lousy engineers since failures are still occurring with people that got the software fix.

ford recalled 50k cars so in their eyes those 50k cars have a certain percent chance of failure. Since ford can’t identify which one will lead to failure they should offer a replacement for the defective part. Even if the new part is the same as the old part at lease they are not damaged from before the software fix.

as far as only a small percentage of cars being affected. That can be said about all recalls. Like the bolt battery possibly leading to fire or the airbags that may explode with shrapnel. Very small chance but they elected to replace all those parts. And before you say software fix, the software does nothing for cars that may already have some damaged to the HVBJB.

 

[AKgrampy]

If that’s what the engineers at ford are telling corporate. Then they have lousy engineers since failures are still occurring with people that got the software fix.

ford recalled 50k cars so in their eyes those 50k cars have a certain percent chance of failure. Since ford can’t identify which one will lead to failure they should offer a replacement for the defective part. Even if the new part is the same as the old part at lease they are not damaged from before the software fix.

as far as only a small percentage of cars being affected. That can be said about all recalls. Like the bolt battery possibly leading to fire or the airbags that may explode with shrapnel. Very small chance but they elected to replace all those parts. And before you say software fix, the software does nothing for cars that may already have some damaged to the HVBJB.

Before we go too far off track I believe we are talking 100,000 cars - NHTSA can only deal with cars sold in USA so that is why the number batted around is 50,000. Cars are also failing in Canada and Europe. Some cars that had a sales hold in July, so no miles prior to software update but manufactured before May 25, have had HVBJB failures so to me it is clear something other than software ( beefier part) began going into cars on May 25. Do I wish Ford would just replace them all - yes! Do I understand why they are not spending the $300,000,000 to perform a recall - unfortunately yes to that too. Am I glad they have a software recall that for the most part prevents a SSS error and allows reduced power and a SVS error - well yes but I still have not received my OTA and my appointment is not until March 23.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Before we go too far off track I believe we are talking 100,000 cars - NHTSA can only deal with cars sold in USA so that is why the number batted around is 50,000. Cars are also failing in Canada and Europe. Some cars that had a sales hold in July, so no miles prior to software update but manufactured before May 25, have had HVBJB failures so to me it is clear something other than software ( beefier part) began going into cars on May 25. Do I wish Ford would just replace them all - yes! Do I understand why they are not spending the $300,000,000 to perform a recall - unfortunately yes to that too. Am I glad they have a software recall that for the most part prevents a SSS error and allows reduced power and a SVS error - well yes but I still have not received my OTA and my appointment is not until March 23.

Agree on all counts. I believe that the new part are beefier. I was just making the argument that even if it wasn’t I would still want it to replace my possibly damaged one.

I just don’t understand how the software satisfies NHTSA requirements. That’s like Chevy releasing a software update where they would only charge the bolt at 10 amps andsay they fixed it. And if a few bolts caught on fire say that’s acceptable and they’ll repair it at that time.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Before we go too far off track I believe we are talking 100,000 cars - NHTSA can only deal with cars sold in USA so that is why the number batted around is 50,000. Cars are also failing in Canada and Europe. Some cars that had a sales hold in July, so no miles prior to software update but manufactured before May 25, have had HVBJB failures so to me it is clear something other than software ( beefier part) began going into cars on May 25. Do I wish Ford would just replace them all - yes! Do I understand why they are not spending the $300,000,000 to perform a recall - unfortunately yes to that too. Am I glad they have a software recall that for the most part prevents a SSS error and allows reduced power and a SVS error - well yes but I still have not received my OTA and my appointment is not until March 23.

There were about 60,000 2021 model year cars built IIRC. It’s a matter of how many were built before (roughly) the end of May 2022. Another 20,000? 30,000? 40,000? So maybe 80 to 90 thousand worldwide perhaps? Whatever the number is, it will be a lot no matter what method you use to calculate the numbers.

 

[AKgrampy]

Agree on all counts. I believe that the new part are beefier. I was just making the argument that even if it wasn’t I would still want it to replace my possibly damaged one.

I just don’t understand how the software satisfies NHTSA requirements. That’s like Chevy releasing a software update where they would only charge the bolt at 10 amps andsay they fixed it. And if a few bolts caught on fire say that’s acceptable and they’ll repair it at that time.

I think it was that the NHTSA complaint was cars were bricking in unsafe locations, Ford developed software to prevent bricking in unsafe locations but cars would then need to get warranty repair of HVBJB, NHTSA satisfied, consumers no so much.

 

[dtbaker61]

... Ford developed software to prevent bricking in unsafe locations ...

*most of the time*
so.... satisfied NHTSA.

But certainly *not satisfied* Owners that know there is still a chance of bricking, even if you have the software update installed. Additionally, the current Policy of not replacing until failure adds the cost of many wasted hours for Owners, and several weeks of delay that could be avoided if recall remove/replace could be scheduled as a regular recall before actual failure:

- extra trip+time+scheduling service appt at the dealer to verify code via FDRS rather than verify remote, which IS possible.

- 3-5 extra days driving on SVS Alert with reduced power and increased risk ofprogressing to SSN brick status waiting for delivery of replacement HVBJB, at best, since dealers aren't allowed to stock a replacement in their shop.

- a second wait to schedule actual replacement fix once part arrives.... somewhere between 3 and 30 days depending on your dealer's schedule and priorities.

My only reason in continuing this thread is to make all these specific reasons Owners are upset that @Ford Motor Company is not stepping up to allowing recall remove/replace to be scheduled BEFORE failure for eligible vehicles, and not even allowing/enabling remote verification via FDRS of eligible codes.

Personally, I'm all set now. Mine failed, I got it verified, replaced, and driving without the fear of bricking hanging over my head. I'm STILL not happy with Ford for maintaining the current Policy of no replacement before failure.

 

[AKgrampy]

*most of the time*
so.... satisfied NHTSA.

But certainly *not satisfied* Owners that know there is still a chance of bricking, even if you have the software update installed. Additionally, the current Policy of not replacing until failure adds the cost of many wasted hours for Owners, and several weeks of delay that could be avoided if recall remove/replace could be scheduled as a regular recall before actual failure:

- extra trip+time+scheduling service appt at the dealer to verify code via FDRS rather than verify remote, which IS possible.

- 3-5 extra days driving on SVS Alert with reduced power and increased risk ofprogressing to SSN brick status waiting for delivery of replacement HVBJB, at best, since dealers aren't allowed to stock a replacement in their shop.

- a second wait to schedule actual replacement fix once part arrives.... somewhere between 3 and 30 days depending on your dealer's schedule and priorities.

My only reason in continuing this thread is to make all these specific reasons Owners are upset that @Ford Motor Company is not stepping up to allowing recall remove/replace to be scheduled BEFORE failure for eligible vehicles, and not even allowing/enabling remote verification via FDRS of eligible codes.

Personally, I'm all set now. Mine failed, I got it verified, replaced, and driving without the fear of bricking hanging over my head. I'm STILL not happy with Ford for maintaining the current Policy of no replacement before failure.

Sometimes wish mine would just fail too but prefer next summer after I get the recall update!

Sponsored