2023 Mach-E priced over $55K & delivered in 2023 will not qualify for tax credit! Latest IRS ruling says Mach-E is a CAR - not SUV !

[Mach-Lee]

I'd like to see some clarification from the IRS on how this criteria is established. They have the Escape listed as an SUV with an 80k Cap, and it's platform mate, the Corsair, listed as a car:

An Escape is a SUV because of the ground clearance and approach/departure angles.

Here are the requirements in 49 CFR 523.5(b)(2): https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-523#p-523.5(b)(2)

Needs 4 out of these 5 to be a SUV:
(i) Approach angle of not less than 28 degrees.
(ii) Breakover angle of not less than 14 degrees.
(iii) Departure angle of not less than 20 degrees.
(iv) Running clearance of not less than 20 centimeters.
(v) Front and rear axle clearances of not less than 18 centimeters each.

I've previously calculated the Mach-E angles:

Seems like the Mach-E only qualifies with the breakover and departure angles (2/5).

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[randomvoice]

The IRS spits truth here. The only reason anyone would call the Mach-E an SUV is because Americans have all lost their god damn minds and most will not purchase a vehicle that isn't an SUV. Even when most of those SUV purchases are just boring tall cars anyway. The Mach E is a fun to drive family station wagon, and that should be considered a good thing.

Argue that the MSRP limit shouldn't be different between vehicle type, but you can't argue what is clearly a car should be an SUV.

The point is that none of the average cars

2023	Tesla Model 3 Rear Wheel Drive	$55,000
2023	Tesla Model 3 Long Range	$55,000
2023	Tesla Model Y All-Wheel Drive - 7 seat variant (3-rows)	$80,000
2023	Tesla Model Y Long Range - 7 seat variant (3-rows)	$80,000
2023	Tesla Model Y Performance - 7 seat variant (3-rows)	$80,000
2023	Tesla Model Y All-Wheel Drive - 5 seat variant (2-rows)	$55,000
2023	Tesla Model Y Long Range - 5 seat variant (2-rows)	$55,000
2023	Tesla Model Y Performance - 5 seat variant (2-rows)	$55,000

off IRS website

Wait so even though it is literally the same car, a 7 seater model Y gets a 80K limit while the 5 seater doesn't? Man someone at IRS has lost his marbles. How does this make any sense lol.

 

[Psalm139]

Kinda like if you make $150,000 in income versus $150,001 next year.

Well that isn't true in the US at least. In the US you only pay an increase percentage of taxes on the money you make in that bracket. So the $1 above $150k would be taxed at a higher rate.
Everyone's first $10k (ish) isn't even taxed.

On topic, Mache is certainly hurt on ground clearance. It's under 6" while the ID4 and Model Y aren't. I know its dumb but there have to be some standard rules. The late notice isn't good. People need to plan their finances and a $7500 swing is huge.

 

[Scooby24]

Well that isn't true in the US at least. In the US you only pay an increase percentage of taxes on the money you make in that bracket. So the $1 above $150k would be taxed at a higher rate.
Everyone's first $10k (ish) isn't even taxed.

On topic, Mache is certainly hurt on ground clearance. It's under 6" while the ID4 and Model Y aren't. I know its dumb but there have to be some standard rules. The late notice isn't good. People need to plan their finances and a $7500 swing is huge.

I think they are referencing the 150k income limit for the tax credit, not tax bracket.

As I understand the income tax credit limit, if you made anything over 150k you're out. There's no phasing it out.

My wife isn't as high of an income earner so we have a joint 300k limit which keeps us comfortably qualifying.

 

[gryphon]

Well that isn't true in the US at least. In the US you only pay an increase percentage of taxes on the money you make in that bracket. So the $1 above $150k would be taxed at a higher rate.
Everyone's first $10k (ish) isn't even taxed.

On topic, Mache is certainly hurt on ground clearance. It's under 6" while the ID4 and Model Y aren't. I know its dumb but there have to be some standard rules. The late notice isn't good. People need to plan their finances and a $7500 swing is huge.

I think you missed my point. If you make 150,000 in income as an individual in 2023, you may be eligible for the EV Tax Credit. If you make 150,001 in income as an individual in 2023, you will not be eligible. That was the full and complete extent of my comment.

 

[dbsb3233]

2023	Tesla Model 3 Rear Wheel Drive	$55,000
2023	Tesla Model 3 Long Range	$55,000
2023	Tesla Model Y All-Wheel Drive - 7 seat variant (3-rows)	$80,000
2023	Tesla Model Y Long Range - 7 seat variant (3-rows)	$80,000
2023	Tesla Model Y Performance - 7 seat variant (3-rows)	$80,000
2023	Tesla Model Y All-Wheel Drive - 5 seat variant (2-rows)	$55,000
2023	Tesla Model Y Long Range - 5 seat variant (2-rows)	$55,000
2023	Tesla Model Y Performance - 5 seat variant (2-rows)	$55,000

off IRS website

Also interesting because there are no Model Y's below $55,000 MSRP.

 

[Fran2fran2]

Is this for real ?

Expected $80K max MSRP.

Now it says $55K max MSRP.

Is this final for the 2023 tax year on our incoming MME ?

How did the "SMALL SUV" change to "CAR" ?

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deducti...ied-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

Link to the nhtsa vin decoder calls the Mach e an suv, wouldn’t this put it in the $80,000 category? Possible typo? Crazy to think the escape is at $80,000 and the Mach Ev at $55,000

 

[ab13]

Also interesting because there are no Model Y's below $55,000 MSRP.

I wonder if there will be some "special" models for this case. The rules don't appear to do anything about the whole selling range after the fact that they did in Canada.

 

[Fran2fran2]

MME has been categorized as a car since it's debut. Seems strange.

My registration called it either a truck or an suv. Forget which

 

[phil]

Also interesting because there are no Model Y's below $55,000 MSRP.

For a small fee, Mr. Musk will be happy to add the third row seating, and possibly forget to install it.

 

[Polar]

The 60's were the golden age of station wagons:

"The Ford and Mercury full-size wagons built after 1964 were available with four rows of seats, with the rear two rows in the cargo area and facing each other. The third and fourth rows were designed for two people each (although these seats were quite narrow in later models), giving a total seating capacity of ten people."

Might be hard to find one now...

Okay - I feel better. Thanks for the clarification ?

The rear horse shoe. Never in my life have I considered the rear jump seats two separate rows, I can see the argument. But I would not myself say those are two rows of seats.
I drove a ‘95 Caprice wagon with the awful reverse flow LT1 motor and before that we had a ‘83 iirc LTD with the rear seats. God I loved those cars.

 

[Mirak]

The problem isn't Americans' preference for taller/larger vehicle, the problem is lawmaker's dumb policies. An arbitrary MSRP cutoff and an arbitrary vehicle type classification for such a huge tax credit is an irresponsible way to govern. ESPECIALLY making it all-or-nothing across an arbitrary price point. These types of things should always be done on a sliding scale (like say, a $200 reduction in the credit for every $1000 in MSRP over $50k, regardless of vehicle type). That way people only lose a little of the credit when they're barely over the threshold.

The tax credit is stupid policy, period. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

But I do feel bad for everybody missing the cutoff. Silver lining, you'll get BC 1.2?

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I know its dumb but there have to be some standard rules

Except ground clearance is irrelevant. Tesla Model Y Long Range 7 seat: $80,000 limit. Tesla Model Y Long Range 5 seat: $55,000. Same car, one extra row of seats.

 

[Monke]

Agreed!

Escape PHEV weighs less, has less cubic feet of storage, etc...

MME should be classified as "mini or small SUV / CUV"....

We had several escapes as loaners. They are taller, more ground clearance and looked longer than MME. Escape is definitely an SUV. MME is on the smaller size of SUV.

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