Drive for two hours - Charge for an hour road trip.

[Ride_the_lightning]

The WHAT?

Yes freakin' way. I could give two craps if you believe me or not, but ask yourself this: What possible reason could I have to make this up?

No, I don't. Why do you think this? I NEVER said you could go 250 miles in winter.

As I asked the very, very angry man in my last post, PLEASE read carefully before replying.

I’m sure you get amazing highway range by not using your heat and driving slow. You do you. But my SR AWD’s EPA rating is achieved at 3.1 mi / kWH, and equates to 211 miles of range. In ideal conditions. At 60 mph. There’s nothing special about your car that somehow makes it more efficient, unless you are BSing us all and actually live somewhere warm, or drive a RWD CR1 with the heat off.

Edit: and yes, trying to convince us all that we are the crazy ones and that we couldn’t possibly be experiencing shitty winter range despite it being an objective, testable fact, is the fucking definition of gaslighting.

Edit2: there are lots of reasons you might make stuff up. There sure are a ton of Tesla fanboys pushing BS narratives so I guess you could have the same motivations as them. Only you know the answer to that.

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[dbsb3233]

Infrastructure is only one problem, it will not help with the slow charging speed compared to Tesla. Ford battery technology is not there yet.
Best case s enario you found a perfect charger, you would have to spend at least 45 mins charging anyway.
2-2.5 hrs driving + 45 min charging us still miserable for long trips.

Our road trip charges are usually 25-30 minutes. That's because we're usually adding about 50% each time, not 70% or 80%. We like keeping enough "in the tank" to reach a backup charger just in case. We're commonly living in the 30-80% area of the battery.

We also try to stick to daytime driving. A typical "full" drive day for us is ~500 miles with 3 DCFC stops. One of them being a lunch where we'd take over 30 minutes anyway. That means a difference of two 30 minute stops we wouldn't have if cannonballing in an ICE. We're fine with that. Frankly as we've gotten into retirement, we like to stop every couple hours anyway to get out and stretch our legs. In our younger days, the extra stops and loss of an hour would bother us. But now we rather enjoy it.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

The max charge rate I could get with my SR AWD was 62 kw last weekend. That’s 53 minutes to charge from 0-80%. OPs estimate is pretty spot on.

- That’s with maximum en route preconditioning. Verified by my OBD2 app, battery reached a temp of about 75F and then battery heating stopped about 5 min after I got there. 62kw was the charger power. Only 56kw was going to my battery until it finished heating.
- Outdoor temp above freezing. Roughly 40-45F.
- Starting SOC was 35%, ending SOC about 60%.
- Used two different, brand new EVGo chargers. One was 100kw and one was 150kw.
- it’s not the EVGo charger limiting me. It charges faster at this same station when it’s warm out.

I realize ER batteries will charge at a higher maximum power. But less than 1C charge rate is still bad for a preconditioned battery under 50% SOC.

 

[azerik]

I agree, I think Ford blew it by not using a more advanced or faster charging structure for the car.

Why? Most EA's cant even deliver 125kw reliably. Why put another $2k+ in higher power DCDC pieces, plus bigger cable, bus bars etc. When 1 out of 100 cars might be able to use it. Just raise the price of the vehicle. Because if it costs Ford $2k, they'll charge $6k for it. Not to mention 2c charge rate of 200kw isn't good for the batteries either.

 

[superdave80]

I’m sure you get amazing highway range by not using your heat and driving slow.

Yes.

But my SR AWD’s EPA rating is achieved at 3.1 mi / kWH, and equates to 211 miles of range. In ideal conditions. At 60 mph.

No freaking way! There's NO WAY you get that efficiency!!! You are lying and gaslighting me!

See how annoying that is?

and yes, trying to convince us all that we are the crazy ones and that we couldn’t possibly be experiencing shitty winter range despite it being an objective, testable fact, is the fucking definition of gaslighting.

Good thing I never said you were crazy, or lying, or any of those other things. I was simply pointing out that you CAN get better efficiency, as I have.

So apparently I don't fit the fucking definition of gaslighting.

 

[Blue highway]

The max charge rate I could get with my SR AWD was 62 kw last weekend. That’s 53 minutes to charge from 0-80%. OPs estimate is pretty spot on.

- That’s with maximum en route preconditioning. Verified by my OBD2 app, battery reached a temp of about 75F and then battery heating stopped about 5 min after I got there. 62kw was the charger power. Only 56kw was going to my battery until it finished heating.
- Outdoor temp above freezing. Roughly 40-45F.
- Starting SOC was 35%, ending SOC about 60%.
- Used two different, brand new EVGo chargers. One was 100kw and one was 150kw.
- it’s not the EVGo charger limiting me. It charges faster at this same station when it’s warm out.

I realize ER batteries will charge faster. But less than 1C charge rate is still bad for a preconditioned battery under 50% SOC.

In terms of C rate, the ER batteries and SR batteries charge identically. For consistency I really hope the lingo changes to C rate from kW rate.

The Ford engineers are really conservative with the charge rate... I hope, (but am not optimistic) that the charge curves are raised again. Below 70% SOC, charging at 1C to 1.2C does not create heat problems at moderate temperatures.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

Yes.

No freaking way! There's NO WAY you get that efficiency!!! You are lying and gaslighting me!

See how annoying that is?

Good thing I never said you were crazy, or lying, or any of those other things. I was simply pointing out that you CAN get better efficiency, as I have.

So apparently I don't fit the fucking definition of gaslighting.

By telling people not to use their flipping heater in the winter. That isn’t helpful and nobody gives a shit that you don’t experience cold weather range loss BECAUSE YOU ARE OK WITH BEING COLD.

I saw a story today about a 103 year old vet who got charged $600 to heat his home. You should have just told him he should have sucked it up and turned his heat off if he didnt wanna pay that.

See how annoying that is? I suppose we should all state our assumptions up front. “I assume when I drive in the winter that I can use my heater and be warm.” So unreasonable I know.

 

[Phil Martin]

Yeah, that's pretty much the only reason to add very expensive batteries - to offset also very expensive demand charges necessitated by very costly peak supply from the power company.

Wouldn't be as bad if people DCFC'd at 4am instead of 4pm, but of course that's not when most people do it.

The other way to do this is for the public utility commissions to formulate a plan to significantly reduce the demand fees for a set period of time. The fee would reinstitute over a period of time as usage increases at the DCFC facilities.

Average and median kWh costs at low usage facilities can cost close to $30 per kWh as it is. This is why EA doesn't put any money into fixing their chargers.

 

[superdave80]

That isn’t helpful and nobody gives a shit that you don’t experience cold weather range loss BECAUSE YOU ARE OK WITH BEING COLD.

Jacket. You really think I drive around freezing my butt off in the morning?

I saw a story today about a 103 year old vet who got charged $600 to heat his home. You should have just told him he should have sucked it up and turned his heat off if he didnt wanna pay that.

???

You really lost me on this one.

 

[dbsb3233]

The other way to do this is for the public utility commissions to formulate a plan to significantly reduce the demand fees for a set period of time. The fee would reinstitute over a period of time as usage increases at the DCFC facilities.

Average and median kWh costs at low usage facilities can cost close to $30 per kWh as it is. This is why EA doesn't put any money into fixing their chargers.

That doesn't reduce the cost for providing such high surge power being on-demand at any moment though. That's why demand charges exist - to cover the high cost of providing it.

 

[kennethjk]

Why? Most EA's cant even deliver 125kw reliably. Why put another $2k+ in higher power DCDC pieces, plus bigger cable, bus bars etc. When 1 out of 100 cars might be able to use it. Just raise the price of the vehicle. Because if it costs Ford $2k, they'll charge $6k for it. Not to mention 2c charge rate of 200kw isn't good for the batteries either.

I guess you know how much extra it would cost. Better than me, I don’t but I still think they would have been smarter to do so

There are plenty of faster chargers out there now and more coming and it future proofs the car to some degree

I guess all the other companies that have gone with “faster charging” are wrong

Makes sense to me but not to you , oh well.

 

[kltye]

Jacket. You really think I drive around freezing my butt off in the morning?

???

You really lost me on this one.

Only poor people wear warm clothing, obviously.

 

[azerik]

You just wont get it will you. FORD does not charge much at all over 1c. In order for you to get your mythical, all fixing, faster rate in a Ford you need MORE battery. Current ER battery is just under 100kw. 1c is 100 freakin kw. and NOT much higher than that for any length of time as it generates more heat and issues. This is the reason most people see sub 100kw FC for the majority of DCFC charge time. You want faster charge, get Ford to change their entire outlook on battery charging. You have a couple degrees in internet chemical and electrical engineering? They'll probably stop production of everything and do what you say, because you say others on the internet can charge faster.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

Only poor people wear warm clothing, obviously.

Did you know it’s actually not recommended to let young kids wear jackets in car seats? I have to take my kids winter coats off of them when I buckle them in. Kids seats also do not have heaters like the front seats. So no, I’m not freezing my toddler to death while we we drive to grandmas by turning off the heat. That’s not a reasonable solution.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

You just wont get it will you. FORD does not charge much at all over 1c. In order for you to get your mythical, all fixing, faster rate in a Ford you need MORE battery. Current ER battery is just under 100kw. 1c is 100 freakin kw. and NOT much higher than that for any length of time as it generates more heat and issues. This is the reason most people see sub 100kw FC for the majority of DCFC charge time. You want faster charge, get Ford to change their entire outlook on battery charging. You have a couple degrees in internet chemical and electrical engineering? They'll probably stop production of everything and do what you say, because you say others on the internet can charge faster.

I actually do have multiple degrees in electrical engineering, but I concede that battery chemistry isn’t my specialization.

Look, I actually respect Ford’s conservative approach. I think my battery will still be functioning in 8-10 years and I’m not sure my Tesla would be. I’m also less concerned my car will burst into flames like so many teslas have in accidents. But I’m also willing to state the truth, and that is that DCFC with the MME isn’t fast at all. I knew that when I bought it. But that doesn’t mean I’ll pretend it’s a strength of the car. It’s absolutely a weakness, and a big one.

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