What kw fast charging should I expect?

[bbulkow]

Seriously!

I know the fast charging rate depends on temperature, current state of charge, extended range vs standard, and to a different extent battery wear and capped by charger power.

But we can simplify:
+ 20pct to 70pct SOC (the broad middle)
+ new battery packs
+ 60 to 70 degrees F (room temp?)
+ assume not preconditioned until ford makes it easier
+ current software (4.2.x)
+ one answer each for er and regular

That should constrain the problem space to allow answers.

What kw charging should I expect in an average day?

I ask because I was at a fast charger yesterday, starting at 25pct SOC, and was getting 70. ER battery. The charger was supposed to be 100kw. According to some curves, I thought I should be capable of 110kw, so might have expected 90kw with loss. There is a big difference between 110, 90, 70... should I try a different charger? Take my car in for service? Or should I expect this rate and be happy it isnt 40? I had no idea... still have no idea... and have read a lot of posts and curves.

If I ever take a road trip, i will want to know what to plan for.

TIA!

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[michaelmmegt]

A lot of chargers have amp limits in addition to kilowatt limits. It's unfortunate that most chargers do not communicate this amp limit to users. If the charger you used is limited to 200 amps then about 70kW is all you can expect for a Mach-E. Of course it could just be a broken charger too.

 

[dmastro]

YMMV

There's so many variables as your list points out, not the least of which is the limit and condition of the DCFC you connect to.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

 

[kltye]

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but the most sure-fire way to figure out "whose fault" it is is to plug an OBD II scanner in and look at the "HV DC Charger Maximum Current" sensor in Car Scanner. That way you can see what the maximum current the charger can offer, and see if the car is requesting that ("HV Charger Current Requested"). If it's almost the same value, then it's the DCFC's fault. If it's lower, than your car is throttling the speed for the reasons you listed above.

I know it's more work than plugging in and walking away, but it has saved me so much time figuring out if I should move chargers. (For example, EA chargers are usually several hundred amps. If the max current it's offering the car is lower than say, 300 amps, I know the charger has derated itself)

 

[bbulkow]

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but the most sure-fire way to figure out "whose fault" it is is to plug an OBD II scanner in and look at the "HV DC Charger Maximum Current" sensor in Car Scanner.

I know it's more work than plugging in and walking away, but it has saved me so much time figuring out if I should move chargers.

i had my odb2 plugged in, will look at that next time. I have no problems with that answer.

it doesn't help answer what i should plan on a road trip.

What charge does do you see on a well operating charger, in the situations i described?

I did see the charger was delivering full 400v, which i think is the upper end, right?

 

[iankellogg]

in the winter 75kw i pretty normal. Summer is like 110kw down to 80w. the car charges basically at 1C in winter, 1.5C in summer. The max you'll ever see is slightly above 150kw on a 350KW charger but that only happens in the summer and it only lasts <5 minutes before it drops to 110kw.

 

[kltye]

i had my odb2 plugged in, will look at that next time. I have no problems with that answer.

it doesn't help answer what i should plan on a road trip.

What charge does do you see on a well operating charger, in the situations i described?

I did see the charger was delivering full 400v, which i think is the upper end, right?

You want to be looking at amperage, not voltage. If the charger can't meet your pack voltage, charging won't start at all.

You can only plan so much for a roadtrip. I've just gotten used to what various numbers mean on Plugshare - e.g., if it's a 62.5kW charger, it's probably a ChargePoint CPE250 that's rated for 156 amps max. I'm not sure what station is rated for 100kW (if you could post a Plugshare link that'd be great!), but because of the MME's low nominal pack voltage (even for "400v" cars), we're probably not going to hit that 100kW. And you definitely won't know until you get to the station if a charger is busted.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Seriously!

I know the fast charging rate depends on temperature, current state of charge, extended range vs standard, and to a different extent battery wear and capped by charger power.

But we can simplify:
+ 20pct to 70pct SOC (the broad middle)
+ new battery packs
+ 60 to 70 degrees F (room temp?)
+ assume not preconditioned until ford makes it easier
+ current software (4.2.x)
+ one answer each for er and regular

That should constrain the problem space to allow answers.

What kw charging should I expect in an average day?

I ask because I was at a fast charger yesterday, starting at 25pct SOC, and was getting 70. ER battery. The charger was supposed to be 100kw. According to some curves, I thought I should be capable of 110kw, so might have expected 90kw with loss. There is a big difference between 110, 90, 70... should I try a different charger? Take my car in for service? Or should I expect this rate and be happy it isnt 40? I had no idea... still have no idea... and have read a lot of posts and curves.

If I ever take a road trip, i will want to know what to plan for.

TIA!

It will step down lower as time goes on because of the charge curve. But broadly I would expect these at 50%:

77 kW Extended pack
65 kW Standard pack

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Here's some data for an ER battery during a single trip of about 700 miles. I drove way too many miles in a single day, but did get some interesting data. Ignore the temperature spike, that's obviously a spurious data point.

In case anyone isn't familiar with how to read these charts. The top one is the outgoing (positive) and incoming (negative) power from the battery. The spikes are accelerations and regenerative braking. The deep negative spike followed by the positive-sloped line toward 0 kW is DCFC charging. If you take the average, you'll see that overall I get an average of 75-90 kW charge rate. The peak charge rate is mostly irrelevant. People like to see 150 kW, but if you get 150 kW for ten minutes, that's not actually much additional energy to the battery. I tend to average around 75-90 kW.

 

[bbulkow]

You can only plan so much for a roadtrip. I've just gotten used to what various numbers mean on Plugshare - e.g., if it's a 62.5kW charger, it's probably a ChargePoint CPE250 that's rated for 156 amps max. I'm not sure what station is rated for 100kW (if you could post a Plugshare link that'd be great!), but because of the MME's low nominal pack voltage (even for "400v" cars), we're probably not going to hit that 100kW. And you definitely won't know until you get to the station if a charger is busted.

Thanks!

Sure, here's the plugshare: https://www.plugshare.com/location/202459 . Looks like the chargers are rated at 200KW for CCS, and the same charger is 100KW on CHADEMO and Tesla, which I perhaps missed while I was pulling in. They appeared in good repair and a few (2? 3?) other cars seemed to be happily charging.

In contrast, EA charging locations locally were mostly full (as we know, probably a combination of the Hundai deal, and EA has fewer chargers per location generally). Most EA around here don't have so many plugs, I think.

I had checked the location with Plugshare and with the EVGo app before arriving. When I arrived it was as stated.

I liked the location and may use it again: if I needed to stretch for a moment, there's a nice commercial street. If I was stopping for lunch, there's a first rate japanese curry joint, and I love me a good japanese curry.

But I wasn't getting anything like 200KW, or even 100KW.

 

[bbulkow]

Here's some data for an ER battery during a single trip of about 700 miles.

If you take the average, you'll see that overall I get an average of 75-90 kW charge rate. .... I tend to average around 75-90 kW.

Thanks for the graphs! What exact program are you using? I have CarScanner but I haven't figured out the mojo to get good looking graphs, I need ones that span longer time like this. I did record the data (I think) so I can try to pull the data out into a graphing program (eg a spreadsheet) and take a look.

Eyeballing graphs like these are why I think 70kw when at 25% SOC was low, you were above 100kw each time. Maybe your temp was higher, maybe my charger was busted. Looking at your graphs, what I see is you're above 70% until you hit about 75 to 80 percent charge, then you fall, which is about what I would expect. When you were down around 23% you were significantly above 100KW until about 50 to 60% SOC, which is more what I was expecting.

I guess I have to try just charging at a lot of places to see what my percent should be. Seems like this should be better known, like the 0 to 60 time in seconds which people can quote by heart

 

[bbulkow]

It will step down lower as time goes on because of the charge curve. But broadly I would expect these at 50%:

77 kW Extended pack
65 kW Standard pack

Yeah, that's more what I was expecting. So I was low at 70 kw at 23% SOC. Def going to look at the request amp / delivered amp stats next quickcharge.

I admit this is a little more geek than need. I charge at home and at work and with the mache range, I'm just super curious. Won't be making a habit of it either, in the interest of longer battery life.

 

[SWO]

Your experience was very likely a charger limitation. 160-163kw peak is the norm for me on a 350kw charger:

 

[RickMachE]

I would suggest you visit one of the several EA locations near you, after verifying which chargers at a location have been giving people good charges, and you will discover the peak you will get, which should be over 150kW for a short period, then settling in the 110kW range, and over time throttling down to 90s, etc.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Thanks for the graphs! What exact program are you using? I have CarScanner but I haven't figured out the mojo to get good looking graphs, I need ones that span longer time like this. I did record the data (I think) so I can try to pull the data out into a graphing program (eg a spreadsheet) and take a look.

Eyeballing graphs like these are why I think 70kw when at 25% SOC was low, you were above 100kw each time. Maybe your temp was higher, maybe my charger was busted. Looking at your graphs, what I see is you're above 70% until you hit about 75 to 80 percent charge, then you fall, which is about what I would expect. When you were down around 23% you were significantly above 100KW until about 50 to 60% SOC, which is more what I was expecting.

I guess I have to try just charging at a lot of places to see what my percent should be. Seems like this should be better known, like the 0 to 60 time in seconds which people can quote by heart

This is a screenshot from CarScanner.
At the end of your recording session, you need to tell CarScanner to Disconnect before shutting off any of the devices. This saves the data. Then you go too the main screen and select data recording. Select the day and time, flip the toggles of the data you want to see graphed, then in this case, I selected separate graphs.

You can also export to CSV and open in your favorite plotting app.

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