This sounds like what we should expect from charging stations

[dbsb3233]

Gas stations are able to sell gas nearly at cost and subsidize pump purchases and maintenance with the convenience store. This should be easier with EVs because you have a captive audience that doesn’t even need to supervise the refilling process.

Yes and no. I agree that the % of customers going inside and buying something will be higher than a gas station because a charge takes 10x longer than a gas fill-up. More time to kill so more likelihood of going inside. But... that works the other way too. The long charge time means 1/10th the number of customers using each pump per day compared to gas. So you gain it on one end but lose it on the other.

Plus many people gassing up at a c-store just move over to a parking spot after filling up and run inside anyway.

Plus most people charge at home, which cuts potential DCFC sales way down relative to gas. Big stations like this are needed for road trip routes, where people have to DCFC far from home. But it would make it a lot more economically viable if they just co-locate into existing travel plazas that already get a ton of gas customers supporting the business.

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[timbop]

Most people don't know he invented opera ?

 

[mdolan92869]

Plus most people charge at home, which cuts potential DCFC sales way down relative to gas. Big stations like this are needed for road trip routes, where people have to DCFC far from home. But it would make it a lot more economically viable if they just co-locate into existing travel plazas that already get a ton of gas customers supporting the business.

This one is along I-5 between San Diego and LA, so it could be the last/first stop going one way or the other.

 

[superdave80]

The long charge time means 1/10th the number of customers using each pump per day compared to gas.

If this had a typical number of 'pumps' compared to a regular gas station, I'd agree. But this location plans to have 40 chargers, which is far more than a typical gas station.

 

[jeffvick2005]

Not sure $5 will do it, if there's no other customers there but the ones charging. That may not even keep the coffee operation in business, let alone the chargers. A half hour use per charge doesn't generate a lot of customer foot traffic per charger per day (not compared to a 3-minute gas-up, anyway.)

That's why co-locating with existing businesses that are already profitable from other foot traffic is usually needed.

Of course, it depends on what they price the chargers at too. They may find a significant premium will be needed to pay for the extra costs.

Agreed. KwH rates will need to be significantly higher to cover the capital and O&M. The volume of customers will be low due to the 30 minutes per charge. However, 40 is a lot of units and if car charging rates continue to improve, maybe the economics pan out in the future. Maybe it will need to be $10 coffee for a while.

 

[jeffvick2005]

If this had a typical number of 'pumps' compared to a regular gas station, I'd agree. But this location plans to have 40 chargers, which is far more than a typical gas station.

I wondered this same thing. However, I imagine 40 chargers cost a lot more in capital and O&M/power than 40 pumps at a gas station...at least until they can assure that at least 38 chargers are working at a given time. Gas stations pumps seem much more reliable.

 

[dbsb3233]

If this had a typical number of 'pumps' compared to a regular gas station, I'd agree. But this location plans to have 40 chargers, which is far more than a typical gas station.

Yeah, I think the only chance a model like this (a dedicated food amenity supported by DCFC customers only) has a chance of working is a superstation along a heavy road trip travel route. The Baker CA SC+EA station is a good example. Perfectly situated between LA and Vegas at just the right distance each way where nearly all EVs have to stop. With a ton of chargers. So enough foot traffic to support the business.

In most cases though, just co-locating at an existing travel plaza will work a lot better financially. And be better for us too as without having to generate extra revenue to fully support the amenities could mean lower charger prices for customers.

 

[dbsb3233]

I wondered this same thing. However, I imagine 40 chargers cost a lot more in capital and O&M/power than 40 pumps at a gas station...at least until they can assure that at least 38 chargers are working at a given time. Gas stations pumps seem much more reliable.

And gas stations have the advantage of needing fewer pumps because of the much faster throughput. Even when they do get bottlenecked at a peak time, a 3-car line is an acceptable 10 minutes. Whereas a 3-car line at a DCFC station is an hour+. Many of those cars will just leave (if they can) are try to make it to another station instead, thus a lost sale.

 

[Logal727]

At least they have an attendant to see the issues first hand and right away.

Sounds like this will have attendants

 

[Exordium01]

Yes and no. I agree that the % of customers going inside and buying something will be higher than a gas station because a charge takes 10x longer than a gas fill-up. More time to kill so more likelihood of going inside. But... that works the other way too. The long charge time means 1/10th the number of customers using each pump per day compared to gas. So you gain it on one end but lose it on the other.

Plus many people gassing up at a c-store just move over to a parking spot after filling up and run inside anyway.

Plus most people charge at home, which cuts potential DCFC sales way down relative to gas. Big stations like this are needed for road trip routes, where people have to DCFC far from home. But it would make it a lot more economically viable if they just co-locate into existing travel plazas that already get a ton of gas customers supporting the business.

I don’t think every stop needs that many chargers. And convenience stores/bodegas are frequently visited by people who don’t need gas.

I’d happily regularly get coffee at a charging station even when I don’t need to charge.

 

[Deleted member 19354]

Amazing!
The lounge and convenience store sound great. I would drive a little out of the way and pay a little more in Kwh for a place like this.

In the meantime, I would just be happy if EA or EVGo added a canopy at each charging location for relief from sun or rain. Doesn't even have to be solar -- is a basic canopy structure that expensive to build?

That would be nice here in Seattle’

 

[RickMachE]

The owners of gas station chains clearly understand the economics of operating them. The dynamics of EV charging aren't anywhere near the same. They also understand those. And realize that a 30 minute charging stop may be a 10 minute stop in the future due to evolving technology.

Some people spend lots of money at convenience stores. Some never go in one. Some set it up as an experience. Some create industry-leading specialties like the best subs. Some cater to truck drivers. They're all over this which is why you see things like the Pilot GM deal, etc.

A few years from now, we'll all be saying how X set up lounges and that was a losing/winning proposition, whereas Y added charging to existing fuel stations and that was a losing/winning proposition.

 

[Side Show Bob]

Let's hope it comes true and works.

Rove bringing 40-station EV charging center, 24-hour lounge to Santa Ana
Others are planned for Corona, Costa Mesa, Long Beach, Torrance and Rancho Cucamonga

Rove bringing 40-station EV charging center, 24-hour lounge to Santa Ana

I see Starbucks getting on board with Rove

Let's hope it comes true and works.

Rove bringing 40-station EV charging center, 24-hour lounge to Santa Ana
Others are planned for Corona, Costa Mesa, Long Beach, Torrance and Rancho Cucamonga

Rove bringing 40-station EV charging center, 24-hour lounge to Santa Ana

I see a relationship with Starbucks coffee on this !

 

[AKgrampy]

40 stations would alleviate that issue mostly, is this a thing gas stations have? just curious

Not sure about the Lower 48 but the few times I stop to fill my second vehicle at a big station there are always one or more bagged nozzles. What I often wonder is if there could not be a way to have these be removable so that they are replaced when bad and returned to a service center for repair? Maybe the issue; however, is just lack of technicians and they just sit idle because no one shows up to repair them.

 

[dmastro]

Has anyone seen one of these ideas outside of a computer rendering?

I’ve used the Tesla lounge in Kettleman City on several occasions. Great place to stop, put your feet up and grab an espresso.

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