Tesla!! when it is going to stop??

[DevSecOps]

One thing to keep in mind is that all NMC Lithium batteries react the same to environmental conditions, regardless of the EV brand.

I know the OP is talking about the EPA estimated range, but from all reports that I've seen it's fairly accurate in good climate traveling at 55mph. Obviously when the climate gets colder, speeds increase and conditions change we see those EPA estimated numbers go down the drain.

My GTPE was not even close to the EPA range numbers. Based on many reports in the forum, that might just be a GTPE issue. In perfect conditions on the freeway I would be lucky to get 220 and in the winter lucky to get 170. My Rivian is far more accurate to the EPA than any other EV I've owned.

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[HONEST ABE]

One thing to keep in mind is that all Lithium batteries react the same to environmental conditions, regardless of the EV brand.

I know the OP is talking about the EPA estimated range, but from all reports that I've seen it's fairly accurate in good climate traveling at 55mph. Obviously when the climate gets colder, speeds increase and conditions change we see those EPA estimated numbers go down the drain.

My GTPE was not even close to the EPA range numbers. Based on many reports in the forum, that might just be a GTPE issue. In perfect conditions on the freeway I would be lucky to get 220 and in the winter lucky to get 170. My Rivian is far more accurate to the EPA than any other EV I've owned.

that is little weird. I am currently getting around 220 and the temperature has been in the thirties in the morning and fifties in the evening. I drive around 80 mostly hwy. Mine is regular GT not GTPE

 

[Mach1E]

that is little weird. I am currently getting around 220 and the temperature has been in the thirties in the morning and fifties in the evening. I drive around 80 mostly hwy. Mine is regular GT not GTPE

Depends on how fast you drive.

EVs are the opposite of ICE though. Faster speeds equal worse efficiency.

You shouldn’t get near EPA range on the highway because the average speeds for the EPA test are lower.

I wish the EPA would change the test criteria though.

1- don’t give manufacturers two options. Tesla chose to use a test that inflated their range compared to the competition and it just confuses shopper.

2. Get rid of MPGe. No one asks about it, no one understands it. How many times has anyone asked you “what’s your MPGe?” Don’t need to answer. The answer is ZERO.

3. Replace EPA “range” with “city range” and “highway range.” 300 miles city and 250 highway makes sense. No explanation needed.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

People don’t understand what epa range means. They assume that epa range means real world range. By the way who’s real world? My real world is different from your real world. All EPA range means that it was the range achieved on a very specific test cycle. If your drove that exact test cycle under that condition you too would achieve that range.

No need to launch an investigation. This has been hashed out many times before.
In summary. Don’t blame the player. Blame the game. The EPA needs to update their test cycle to better reflect the avg use case.

 

[DevSecOps]

that is little weird. I am currently getting around 220 and the temperature has been in the thirties in the morning and fifties in the evening. I drive around 80 mostly hwy. Mine is regular GT not GTPE

It is, what it is. I don't make these things up:

 

[voxel]

One thing to keep in mind is that all Lithium batteries react the same to environmental conditions, regardless of the EV brand.

I know the OP is talking about the EPA estimated range, but from all reports that I've seen it's fairly accurate in good climate traveling at 55mph. Obviously when the climate gets colder, speeds increase and conditions change we see those EPA estimated numbers go down the drain.

My GTPE was not even close to the EPA range numbers. Based on many reports in the forum, that might just be a GTPE issue. In perfect conditions on the freeway I would be lucky to get 220 and in the winter lucky to get 170. My Rivian is far more accurate to the EPA than any other EV I've owned.

Same.

My GTPE was the least efficient EV I've owned before I bought the R1S lol. I never saw more than 235 miles at 100% and usually it was 220-225.

Every 55 highway miles in the GTPE, I'd lose approximately 25% of charge. You can see the energy bar just drop. I think my final tally was 2.6 mi/kWh. By comparison my BMW i4 was 3.7 mi/kWh, my Ioniq 5 Limited AWD was 3.1 mi/kWh, and my Model Ys were around 3.5 mi/kWh. The BMW was crazy efficient even at 85mph.

The dual permanent magnet motors for the MME kill efficiency. I achieved the same poor efficiency with the Ioniq 5 Limited when driving over 75mph and the car had to reconnect the front motor. I regularly hit sub 2.6 mi/kWh at 80mph.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Same.

My GTPE was the least efficient EV I've owned before I bought the R1S lol. I never saw more than 235 miles at 100% and usually it was 220-225.

Every 55 highway miles in the GTPE, I'd lose approximately 25% of charge. You can see the energy bar just drop. I think my final tally was 2.6 mi/kWh. By comparison my BMW i4 was 3.7 mi/kWh, my Ioniq 5 Limited AWD was 3.1 mi/kWh, and my Model Ys were around 3.5 mi/kWh. The BMW was crazy efficient even at 85mph.

The dual permanent magnet motors for the MME kill efficiency. I achieved the same poor efficiency with the Ioniq 5 Limited when driving over 75mph and the car had to reconnect the front motor. I regularly hit sub 2.6 mi/kWh at 80mph.

Same. I got 2.6 over 27k miles. The trip computer resets every 10k miles and it‘s been pretty consistent.

 

[Auto Motive]

I agree with you about the incorrect range estimates, but to me that really doesn’t matter. My M3P gets over 200 miles of range, and I very rarely do more than that in one day. Even if I come home with 10% left, it is charged back up by morning and I have yet to have one charging fault in 9,000 miles.

Then there is the supercharger network. We have taken 3 extended road trips now and never even came close to running out of range, never found a broken charger at any of the stations, had plenty of locations to pick from along our route, and always had charge rates over 150kWH at each location. The longest charging time was at a “slower” V2 150kWH charger and that took 40 minutes to go from 10% to 95%. The only reason I let it go that long was we were eating dinner at a restaurant at the same location and it took us that long to finish dinner.

And then that brings me to the advantages that everything just works. From auto preconditioning the car before going to and from work, to drive modes that stay where you put them, to the main screen that is instant in response, to the performance (which is 0 to 60 in 3.1 seconds) everything just works. When I think about all of that and then realize this car cost me $44K after the tax credit, the whole lying about the range really doesn’t get me upset like it does you.

I think at my age its more of a informative reallity by a owner. Our GTPE is fast but as you noted the model 3 is a rocket. Hard to imagine a new Highland 3 plaid version hitting in 2.8 seconds or less. 1/4 in 10.8 or less. Where will ev propulsion be in 2035?
Next ev fpr family could be the X or new Lucod Gravity base AWD hoping $80000 gets the 400 plus range. Tax credit will apply.

 

[MellowJohnny]

I think the answer to your question is not unless someone makes them...

 

[Philsky]

I agree with you about the incorrect range estimates, but to me that really doesn’t matter. My M3P gets over 200 miles of range, and I very rarely do more than that in one day. Even if I come home with 10% left, it is charged back up by morning and I have yet to have one charging fault in 9,000 miles.

Then there is the supercharger network. We have taken 3 extended road trips now and never even came close to running out of range, never found a broken charger at any of the stations, had plenty of locations to pick from along our route, and always had charge rates over 150kWH at each location. The longest charging time was at a “slower” V2 150kWH charger and that took 40 minutes to go from 10% to 95%. The only reason I let it go that long was we were eating dinner at a restaurant at the same location and it took us that long to finish dinner.

And then that brings me to the advantages that everything just works. From auto preconditioning the car before going to and from work, to drive modes that stay where you put them, to the main screen that is instant in response, to the performance (which is 0 to 60 in 3.1 seconds) everything just works. When I think about all of that and then realize this car cost me $44K after the tax credit, the whole lying about the range really doesn’t get me upset like it does you.

totally agree with all your points. My wife has a first run M3 and i have a first run mme extended range. Range difference summer winter about the same - I live in Toronto and drive to a job site 200miles away every week. Summer no problem on one charge for either car. Below about 40 deg I need to stop with the mme. The M3 makes it until freezing. The Tesla charging is reliably 150-200kW and 100% available over 5 years, the public network is a joke with guaranteed unpredicatable non-functioning units and charge rates of rarely more than 60kW, often in the 40’s. I can get rated charge when I go 60 and the temperature is above 55.
Ford projected range as bad as Tesla, even when driving at 75 and 30 deg both give wildly high range left.

at least with the Tesla I can look at real time consumption, with the MME I have to look at the kW/100km widget which I can extrapolate accurately from.

Driven EV only since Leaf in 2013, and power systems engineer - when it takes passion to drive an EV it tells we are still early days and have a lot of WAY better experiences to look forward to. Would never go back even with the kind of baggage we talk about on the forum - teething pains

 

[Jrny127]

I just traded my 2023 Tesla model Y long range for Mach-E GT last month after owning the vehicle for 8 months putting 11k mile on it during that period
I was planning to write an extensive thread about my transition from tesla to Mach-e and the pros and cons of each. unfortunately after spending couple of hours on it, I did refresh the page and lost it all.
Anyway I just want to mention one of the biggest factor that made me trade the model Y, and how most reviewer online ignore that fact when comparing EVs
My biggest beef with Tesla is their continues lying about range and consumption. I am not going into the range they display on their screen because it is a joke and actually there is an active lawsuit against them due to that. My problem is how did the EPA rate the model Y long range with 19 in wheels at 330?? anyone who owned the vehicle or drove it for extended time will know that number is fictional no matter the conditions. Unlike most other EVs including Mach-E where the advertised range is attenable. I am from WV where it is kind of hilly so I definitely don't expect full range but at the same time not 210-235 which is around 65% of the advertised range. I drive like most people on interstate and try to keep my speed under 80 without crazy acceleration or deacceleration. Before my tesla I drove multiple ICE cars and I always get very close to the estimated MPG with exact style of driving and routes. I drove the tesla on more flat interstate in perfect conditions and the best I could get on HWY is around 245 probably, which is again significantly lower than the 330. On same flat roads my previous ICE gets higher MPGe than the advertised one. I've driving my Mach-E GT on the same roads and I get very similar range to what I was getting on the model Y, maybe fraction less 205-230 compared to 210-235 with tesla. The problem here we are talking about 2% real world range difference vs. 18% advertised range by EPA. I watched numerous videos and reviews for other EVs and the advertised range is very attenable or close enough to the EPA rating. Tesla is the only outlier when it comes to that, and it is mind boggling how people and especially reviewers don't call them out enough about it. To me the advertised range (330) was the deal breaker for to go with the model Y vs other EVs.
The other lie with Tesla numbers is consumption. So of course Tesla opt it out to use different units to measure their consumption unlike any other EV. They use watt/Mile vs Mile/KWH. just imagine for an ICE vehicle, a company decided to measure it is consumption in Liter/mile !!. I believe they did that intentionally to make it harder for an average consumer to compare it to other EV or even figure out the real energy consumption, and guess why? because it is fake and inaccurate. I used to average 300 watt/mile which translate to 3.33 mile/KWH (great figure for EV huh!!), but of course it is wrong. It is more like 3 mile/KWH (10% off). While the Mach-E the trip calculator (in my case) will display 2.5 mile/KWH but the actual one is closer to 2.6 mile/KWH.
I just don't understand how they can get away with these false advertising and falsified numbers. EPA needs to open an extensive investigation about the variation in ranges for tesla and other EVs where it was done by same agency and under similar conditions I assume!! but I doubt it because I am pretty sure it was not a mistake and it was done intentionally by the EPA
The listed MPGE for Model-Y is 117 mpge hwy vs 77 mpge for the Mach-E, which represent 50% advantage for the model-Y over the mach-E. According to my recent consumption for both vehicles under the same conditions I get around 3 mile/kwh for the model y vs 2.5 mile/kwh for the mach-E which is only 20% advantage for the model-Y. How come a same testing agency can have this huge margin of error (more the double)
Range and efficiency probably are the most important factors in picking an EV for most people and having an accurate numbers is so crucial for most consumer

I have always heard that Tesla’s are LITERALLY overrated. I love my Mach-E and would never buy a Tesla with Elon Musk as the owner.

 

[richsi]

I enjoyed my Mach-E a lot. Loved programming it and being proactive with its upkeep. Loved how it looked and drove. Fit and Trim right up there with others. Ford knows how to build a vehicle, no question. What I couldn't stomach were all the recalls. Sorry Ford but you can't do that to your customers and expect them to remain loyal to the brand. The final straw was the battery recall, that was it for me. I went and test drove 3 models of Tesla, the X, Y and model 3. I have to say Tesla knows how to build an Electric Vehicle, no question in my mind about that. Things I don't like about Tesla is certainly the range ratings, but hey drive them all (EV) and you will find 200-225 mile is about what you're going to get with anyone of them, environment does affect their range no question. I feared wind and hills, they all act that way so live with it I guess. Don't' compare an ICE vehicle with an EV you have to change your mind set. Other stuff, things I found about a Tesla that I didn't bother to ask about, no XMsirius radio and Apple Carplay/Android Auto. I knew the last two, I will just have to live without them, I guess. The Tesla drive is amazing, I'm not a fan boy but I do have to be honest with myself Tesla knows how to build an EV. I hope I won't be disappointed, but the charging structure is the key to getting others on the EV band wagon. Hope Ford can pull it off, but right now, they are going downhill, and with the announcement of them holding off the Mega Battery Factory, that scared the hell out of me. I got out of the Mach-E when I could and still have some decent money for a downpayment on the Tesla, thank god!

 

[RickMachE]

If the charging structure is key, and Ford will have access to 15,000 Tesla Superchargers in Spring, then that box is checked.

A delay in investment at ONE location makes you sell a car? Do you not buy other things based on the long term investment strategy of the company? Did you look into WHY Ford stopped that? A big piece is the union and wages. And they're building battery production in Kentucky...

 

[TRP]

Been a Ford guy for decades. Love my MachE. Hate Fords "effort" in the software world. Car is buggy and inconsistent. Updates break things. Yes, they build a great car, but they have issues when it comes to software.

My next EV will likely be a Tesla

 

[heisnuts]

I enjoyed my Mach-E a lot. Loved programming it and being proactive with its upkeep. Loved how it looked and drove. Fit and Trim right up there with others. Ford knows how to build a vehicle, no question. What I couldn't stomach were all the recalls. Sorry Ford but you can't do that to your customers and expect them to remain loyal to the brand. The final straw was the battery recall, that was it for me. I went and test drove 3 models of Tesla, the X, Y and model 3. I have to say Tesla knows how to build an Electric Vehicle, no question in my mind about that. Things I don't like about Tesla is certainly the range ratings, but hey drive them all (EV) and you will find 200-225 mile is about what you're going to get with anyone of them, environment does affect their range no question. I feared wind and hills, they all act that way so live with it I guess. Don't' compare an ICE vehicle with an EV you have to change your mind set. Other stuff, things I found about a Tesla that I didn't bother to ask about, no XMsirius radio and Apple Carplay/Android Auto. I knew the last two, I will just have to live without them, I guess. The Tesla drive is amazing, I'm not a fan boy but I do have to be honest with myself Tesla knows how to build an EV. I hope I won't be disappointed, but the charging structure is the key to getting others on the EV band wagon. Hope Ford can pull it off, but right now, they are going downhill, and with the announcement of them holding off the Mega Battery Factory, that scared the hell out of me. I got out of the Mach-E when I could and still have some decent money for a downpayment on the Tesla, thank god!

I use the money I was paying for XM on the MME for a subscription to Apple Music for the Tesla (Tesla has Apple Music built in). I now find that I am using Apple Music in all of our cars and not only have more music options, but better sound quality as well.

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