Hertz To Sell 20,000 EV’s Mostly Tesla / Replace With ICE Vehicles

[apwelsh]

What are you talking about? Starting a new product line is expensive. If Ford price the MME at what it would take for them to break even (not even make a profit) it'll be well north of 90k. They lose 36k per EV sold.

Consumer demands are always going up. Standard equipment on Honda civics were luxury options on Mercedes 10 years ago. All that cost money. We have a spending problem.

I don't know how much I believe their claims of losses. Every startup has to pay for R&D as well deal with the high cost of low scale production inherent with starting up a new product line. But that doesn't change the simple economics of the problem. I have one, because I was able to trade in a vehicle for full blue book, and my dealer just wants them off their lot (but they aren't moving) so my total OTD price was just under 40k after all the fees. I did not pay for any extras (made them give me their 3M window protection for free, or remove it) because I don't ever want anything added-on nor ever pay any upcharges of any kind. On top of it all, the monthly cost was still more than I wanted to pay (I could afford it, but won't ever put myself in that position again), so to save the sale, the dropped the price again.

Simply put, these are not elite cars. In fact, Ford did this to themselves by dropping all their cars and focusing on only trucks simply so they could take advantage of the loop-hole they lobbied for that excludes the EPA restrictions from apply to trucks. Then they jacked up the truck costs. I paid $14k for a RAM 1500 Long Bed in 2000 (when they first came out). I traded it in for $10k five years later, on a $30k Ridgeline that I negotiated the price down to $26, so I only financed the remaining $16k and fees -- basically, I traded up to a luxury truck from a base-model SLT, and my financing we about the same. I ended up selling it for cash after house market crash, about 4 years later, and it was only worth $16k in pristine condition. During all this, wages were stagnant, but I watched as the truck costs doubled, and eventually tripled. Yes, an EV is expensive to make, but Ford could easily invest in that tech and make their money back, if they didn't back themselves into this corner. The only choice for a car now from Ford is a $50k EV (which you can negotiate down about $10k), or a $30k+ Mustang. I don't sympathize over Ford's dilemma, because the only reason the costs are so high, is because the choose to spend their money unwisely on outrageous executive salaries, and stock market manipulation tactics. This is not just Ford, it's everyone today.

If it wasn't for Tesla Model 3, we wouldn't even have a MME, or it would be 2-3x the price. Hertz made some big time mistakes with their ambitious fleet, and their mistake will pay out for all of us, and the used EV market prices will drop. It's a joke that a used Tesla costs more than a new one, but they do, because there aren't enough of them out there. $35k for a 2022 Tesla Model 3 Long Range on Carvana. They only go up as you go elsewhere. dumping this many cars on the used car market might mean I can pickup a Tesla 3 for my seconds BEV, and stash my Fusion Hybrid for long distance trips only, and make it possible for more people to experience ownership of a BEV. It's all part of the market, and we should not worry about production costs -- it's not my concern unless I am a share holder. That should be the concern of Ford's to determine how to fund their projects.

All this is not really the message I meant to get across. I was sparked to throw in my 2cents when I read your comment. But it wasn't even directed at you -- just toward the topic in general.

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[apwelsh]

Lightnings aren't 150k and they never have been, base MSRP is actually $49995, but in actuality, the available trucks are around 60k for standard range XLT. You can actually get an XLT Lightning for LESS than a gas powered one before tax credits. The XLT Lightning is actually a tremendous value vs a gas one, but range anxiety is very real on EV pickups that are used as pickups.

Mach E/EV6/I5/ID.4/MY/M3 are all available for at or below the average transaction price of a new vehicle in the US.

Sure, that was a bad example, because in the case of the F150 Lightning, it's the Dealerships committing the price inflation. My local dealer, which sole me the MME well below MSRP starts the F150 pricing at 95K for the most basic model. And they go way up from there with the average selling prices at around $150k for a Truck. I think the commentator in the video was referring to the same thing, so I think this isn't unique to my area.

 

[nvabill]

its being reported as non normal but the miles on the cars are normal.
so the question I have is when Hertz bought these did they get major incentive? What specifically are they replacing them with?

from a business perspective the style of car itself doesn’t matter as much as the deal that Hertz gets on buying them.

All I can tell you is Hertz is reverting these cars back to ICE from BEV, this means they have changed their business model as far as EV's are concerned. I don't believe Hertz originally bought EV's because they were a deal but because they wanted BEV's and now they want fewer EV's

A quote from one of the articles;
"Citing low demand, high repair costs and rapid depreciation, Hertz announced it would sell 20,000 EVs throughout 2024 and replace them with gas-powered vehicles. The company expects to take a $245 million hit from the sale of the depreciated vehicles. "

https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-w...-service-auto-tesla-ev-fossil-fuel-emmissions

 

[logcat]

Yeah I think that's part of it too. There ought to be a "how-to" sheet slipped in that paper folder they hang from the rearview mirror. Or at least a QR code that directs people to a webpage.

But in a broader sense, it's just too soon to be stocking a lot of EVs for rentals. When people rent a car that's not theirs, they need familiarity and confidence they can just sit in the vehicle and drive it like they're used to. It's already a bit daunting for some people even with ICE, with controls and settings in different places. But at least the basics are the same. Certain key factors are drastically different between ICE and EV. DCFC, L2, 1PD, etc etc.

As someone whose partner is a manager at Hertz, I can say her branch has done this. Especially with charging instructions. Yet people will still bring back the Teslas at 20% claiming they didn't know how to charge it.

 

[Mirak]

the more I think about this the more this whole thing reminds me of basically click bait.

this is the normal refresh time for rental cars. Did Tesla give them a big break when buying and now they are not for replacing? I just feel like there is more to this.

The difference is that they’re not replacing these with more EVs. They’re reverting back to ICE.

 

[2FlyMache]

The difference is that they’re not replacing these with more EVs. They’re reverting back to ICE.

They have mostly Teslas and bolts. Teslas are a little intimidating if you’ve never driven one and bolts have reputation. Match that with a desk team that knows nothing about them and they aren’t preferred. I went to Portland Maine and was offered a Tesla and turned it down because I didn’t feel like learning the controls and knew no one would be able to show me

 

[Mirak]

They have mostly Teslas and bolts. Teslas are a little intimidating if you’ve never driven one and bolts have reputation. Match that with a desk team that knows nothing about them and they aren’t preferred. I went to Portland Maine and was offered a Tesla and turned it down because I didn’t feel like learning the controls and knew no one would be able to show me

That’s all true. And yet, you don’t see Hertz replacing them with a fleet of Mach Es or EV6s or I5s. In fact, that would be an even bigger disaster.

 

[2FlyMache]

That’s all true. And yet, you don’t see Hertz replacing them with a fleet of Mach Es or EV6s or I5s. In fact, that would be an even bigger disaster.

I didn't mean that was the sole reason, just that they had no one who would be able to provide any details on driving an EV. If they had a MachE or EV6, I would have rented it as I know how to find chargers and don't have the extra learning curve of learning the controls on the Tesla screen. The desk people don't even know where the nearest fast chargers are let alone how to use navigation. Everyone pretty much can drive an ICE car. It's too early for rental cars to go that route until more people are actually driving EV's and are comfortable with the differences

 

[Mirak]

I didn't mean that was the sole reason, just that they had no one who would be able to provide any details on driving an EV. If they had a MachE or EV6, I would have rented it as I know how to find chargers and don't have the extra learning curve of learning the controls on the Tesla screen. The desk people don't even know where the nearest fast chargers are let alone how to use navigation. Everyone pretty much can drive an ICE car. It's too early for rental cars to go that route until more people are actually driving EV's and are comfortable with the differences

Totally agree. In that way, the rental market is kind of a microcosm of the population at large.

 

[ChehRob]

An engineer friend was provided with an EV at the rental agency. Of course no two or three page instructions on using the car. He drove it a few miles, turned around and returned it for an ICE. It really is inexcusable that they don't just print up an ultra quick guide for all cars.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Lightnings aren't 150k and they never have been, base MSRP is actually $49995, but in actuality, the available trucks are around 60k for standard range XLT. You can actually get an XLT Lightning for LESS than a gas powered one before tax credits. The XLT Lightning is actually a tremendous value vs a gas one, but range anxiety is very real on EV pickups that are used as pickups.

Mach E/EV6/I5/ID.4/MY/M3 are all available for at or below the average transaction price of a new vehicle in the US.

I'm also not sure where this perception comes from - my dealer loaned me a Lightning and at a Christmas party the owner of an F-150 Sport was asking all sorts of questions, including what's it cost. I said the Pro was circa $60k (CAD), Lariat was around $80K (my loaner) and the Platty was $117k. He said no way - this thing is north of $120K. When I repeated the numbers again he said "well, whatever..." and would not believe me.

Weird.

 

[Gloff]

Sure, that was a bad example, because in the case of the F150 Lightning, it's the Dealerships committing the price inflation. My local dealer, which sole me the MME well below MSRP starts the F150 pricing at 95K for the most basic model. And they go way up from there with the average selling prices at around $150k for a Truck. I think the commentator in the video was referring to the same thing, so I think this isn't unique to my area.

You're saying the dealer near you is still trying to get 40k+ over MSRP on Lightning? Sure, there were markups when it first came out, but now? The guys in the video were discussing the impact of this Hertz news from an investment standpoint, and are certainly not very well informed on the current market for Lightnings.

Who's your local dealer?

 

[dbsb3233]

You're saying the dealer near you is still trying to get 40k+ over MSRP on Lightning? Sure, there were markups when it first came out, but now? The guys in the video were discussing the impact of this Hertz news from an investment standpoint, and are certainly not very well informed on the current market for Lightnings.

Who's your local dealer?

Yep, that would be quite odd. About half of the Lightnings at my dealer are showing $2000 to $4000 dealer discounts below MSRP. They rest are showing flat MSRP, although I'd expect a buyer could negotiate them down a few $thou.

 

[SWO]

Fault lies with Hertz not providing adequate information to renters also.

Agree. I had on employee who was tossed into Niro...nothing else available. He was stuck L2 charging to get to his destination.

 

[dbsb3233]

Agree. I had on employee who was tossed into Niro...nothing else available. He was stuck L2 charging to get to his destination.

That's part of the problem too. It's nice to have some EV options for people that know what they're doing, but with the way rentals work, at peak times people can be stuck with whatever is left. That may be nothing but EVs for people that don't want them and have no interest in the learning curve and mess.

So even just having *some* in the mix can still be a problem.

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