You can't road-trip in an EV...hold my beer

[Hammered]

They could put a dyno in a freezer, a big freezer of course, and measure the difference in range at different speeds and temperatures. Of course that type of test ignores the impact of aerodynamics, which can be very significant.

They just need a factor, such as 60%, to apply to the ideal conditions test result.

I believe modern testing gets a aero drag baseline ala wind tunnel and then runs the tests on a 4 wheel dyno. This is more than enough to extrapolate any range / condition. They just don't want to advertise real-world scenarios. It appears that the german autos seem to do an inverse emissions scam by gimping their test articles so that real-word ends up exceeding test results. Their results come out as if they're using a minimum 30% degraded battery for results.

Sponsored

 

[the golden eel]

The hardest thing would be waiting around for 30 degree weather to do tests.

I got a chuckle out of this. Especially after I looked at your profile and saw where you are located.

Some of us don't have to wait around for 30 degrees. ?

 

[Mach1E]

I got a chuckle out of this. Especially after I looked at your profile and saw where you are located.

Some of us don't have to wait around for 30 degrees. ?

Not this time of year for sure!

More a point that they would have to figure out how to do year round testing.

It’s gonna be a waiting game for you for that summer testing though. ?

 

[thekat03]

Like everything- just pick a number and test it, then disclose the number.

30 degrees seems reasonable.

The hardest thing would be waiting around for 30 degree weather to do tests. But that’s their problem to solve, not mine.

More likely they would to some real testing to get a baseline calculation then just use math to adjust the numbers.

Example- just reduce by a fixed percent for winter range.

Car magazines have been doing this for decades. It’s called a DA (density altitude) correction factor.

It’s how they can test cars in the 1/4 mile anywhere with any weather. Then they adjust for temp and altitude.

That adjustment factor is going to vary per vehicle. Some cars, like the Audi e-tron, only drop about 16% range in winter, while our Mach-E is more likely to lose 34% of range. That being said, just chill and heat the rooms where they test the cars to a set temperature. EPA range isn't calculated from actual road testing, just a lab with artificially set conditions.
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

 

[RandyMache]

MME axle shaft P/N
LJ9Z-3B437-A

I started driving in 1978. Just over 1.6M miles since then. Never have been scammed at a gas station or bought "bad" gas. Literally it has never happened.

Plugs and belts are 100,000 mile preventative maintenance parts (belts even longer now) on modern ICEV. Most modern ICEV have lifetime fuel filters.

My 2022 Bronco maintenance schedule:

Engine oil: every 5,000 to 10,000 miles; its a Condition Based Service.
Engine airfilter: Every 30,000 miles
Plugs: every 100,000 miles
Trans oil: every 150,000 miles
Belt: Every 150,000 miles.
Engine coolant: every 200,000 miles. Or at 10 years.
No interval for the fuel filter.

That's really wonderful for you. If your vehicle (or anyone's vehicle) runs perfect then neither an ICE or a EV will have any problems and life goes on. Anyone who thinks overall that a gas motor is as reliable as an electric motor isn't being honest. Do some people get bad gas? Absolutely. Do some people need to replace a "lifetime" fuel filter? Absolutely. I've had too 3 times in my 1.6 million miles of driving.

I'll leave it with this question....... How many aftermarket mechanic shops are there? How many aftermarket EV shops are there? Even per capita, it's not even close. There are many more moving parts in a gas engine. My reasoning is sound.

 

[Mach1E]

That adjustment factor is going to vary per vehicle. Some cars, like the Audi e-tron, only drop about 16% range in winter, while our Mach-E is more likely to lose 34% of range. That being said, just chill and heat the rooms where they test the cars to a set temperature. EPA range isn't calculated from actual road testing, just a lab with artificially set conditions.
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

Totally fine. They can adjust the factor based on battery tech and testing. It’s just simple math.

They already do this for ICE vehicles. Correction factors for forced induction are different than for NA vehicles.

 

[mkhuffman]

How many aftermarket mechanic shops are there?

Less than the number of body shops and tire shops out there. And every single ICEV repair shop is also a BEV repair shop.

I do agree BEVs are mechanically more simple. But they have a much more complex electrical system, which has components that can also fail. Do you know how many recalls the MME has had since it was released? When the HVBJB fails, you are stranded. It is worse than any ICEV failure I have ever experienced in the billions of years I have been driving.

And BEVs do have transmissions and cooling systems with fluid that can get contaminated and has a replacement interval. Brakes need to be replaced, suspension components need to be replaced. It isn't vastly more simple. In many respects, it is exactly the same as a ICEV.

People are told BEVs require no maintenance. Tell that to Hertz who got rid of a bunch of Teslas partly because they had higher maintenance than ICEVs.

 

[RandyMache]

Less than the number of body shops and tire shops out there. And every single ICEV repair shop is also a BEV repair shop.

I do agree BEVs are mechanically more simple. But they have a much more complex electrical system, which has components that can also fail. Do you know how many recalls the MME has had since it was released? When the HVBJB fails, you are stranded. It is worse than any ICEV failure I have ever experienced in the billions of years I have been driving.

And BEVs do have transmissions and cooling systems with fluid that can get contaminated and has a replacement interval. Brakes need to be replaced, suspension components need to be replaced. It isn't vastly more simple. In many respects, it is exactly the same as a ICEV.

People are told BEVs require no maintenance. Tell that to Hertz who got rid of a bunch of Teslas partly because they had higher maintenance than ICEVs.

Yes, they each have their own issues. Lots of vehicles have recalls. Overall, I agree with you. Hertz and other renta car companies mainly are selling off their EV fleet because too many non EV owners were renting them and had no idea how to charge them. Those are the vast majority of cases from what I have read. I'm pretty new to the EV world and I have had to show people how to charge their EV's at DCFC pretty often.

I was just sparking conversation with my comments. I have had great luck with my EV (MME) for the last 5 months. I have always taken good care of my ICE vehicles and I personally have never had much problem with them. I just figured it was time to adapt to the future.

 

[MightyMike]

Try driving in a ICE vehicle from San Antonio to Albuquerque, but you can't fill up your tank until you get the "fill up the tank" message in your car.

Let me know how that works for you.

There are still places in the united states where range anxiety is an issue for ICE vehicles as well. And you need to plan, or to take a spare gas tank with you. But there are very few. That tells me this has nothing to do with BEV vs. ICE, but has everything to do with the prevalence of charging infrastructure and the reliability of that infrastructure when you get there.

 

[Hammered]

There are still places in the united states where range anxiety is an issue for ICE vehicles as well. And you need to plan, or to take a spare gas tank with you. But there are very few.

There's essentially none. In ConUS the record is 106 miles. I can drive across the US coast to coast in my F150 at 80mph needing to stop for a grand total of 4 fuel stops and it doesn't even have the largest tank in it. With the 50g tank in the bed it's a grand total of 2 stops.

EV v ICE in range and practicality, they're not even in the same league -- and yes, ICE can carry 5 gallons of fuel and get 100-150 miles of additional range. If you find a way to store electrons in a 5 gallon bucket, patent it and enjoy becoming the first trillionaire.

 

[superdave80]

You definitely will not at 80 mph.

Well, he travels from Oregon to California, which maxes out at 70 MPH for speed limits... same as Virginia. So not a problem

so I could engage in longer road trips from Portland to the Bay Area and Palm Springs.

 

[superdave80]

It’s why I wish the window stickers were more clear with 4 numbers-

Summer city range
Summer highway range
Winter city
Winter highway

It could probably be simplified by doing away with city range.

I'd like to see them post a 70/70 range and a 70/20 range (70 MPH in 70 degrees and 20 degrees). Take 10% off the final numbers to account for future battery degradation and a small safety margin. The tricky part will be the use of the heater in the 20 degree test and what setting it should be at.

 

[mkhuffman]

It could probably be simplified by doing away with city range.

I'd like to see them post a 70/70 range and a 70/20 range (70 MPH in 70 degrees and 20 degrees). Take 10% off the final numbers to account for future battery degradation and a small safety margin. The tricky part will be the use of the heater in the 20 degree test and what setting it should be at.

There is a measurable difference in efficiency at 75 mph vs 70 mph. I prefer something like you suggested except at 75 mph. Personally I set the cruise at 80, so a range estimate at 80 is ideal for me, but I know a lot of people don't do that. Actually, I get passed regularly at 80 mph.

 

[Mach1E]

There is a measurable difference in efficiency at 75 mph vs 70 mph. I prefer something like you suggested except at 75 mph. Personally I set the cruise at 80, so a range estimate at 80 is ideal for me, but I know a lot of people don't do that. Actually, I get passed regularly at 80 mph.

Might be hard to convince the government to do standardized testing that requires you to break the law in most states.

Helpful info though.

I do think we need both city and highway numbers either way. That’s what car buyers are used to seeing.

 

[mkhuffman]

Might be hard to convince the government to do standardized testing that requires you to break the law in most states.

Helpful info though.

I do think we need both city and highway numbers either way. That’s what car buyers are used to seeing.

The C&D 75 mph range test is very helpful. They have tested most BEVs from what I can tell.

Sponsored