14-30P 24 amp -- is the Tesla Mobile Connector + Tesla Tap the best option?

[music_cities]

This seems like the smartest move for my brother's house specifically, especially considering there's a Tesla supercharger very close that I will soon be able to use.

This should work, right? For the 240V 12Amp charging with the Nema 5-15 tail on the Ford Mobile Charger?

NEMA 14-30P to 5-15R 5-20R 6-15R 6-20R Compact 240V 30 Amp 4 Prong Male Plug to 240V 15 Amp 20 Amp 3 Prong Female Receptacle Outlet Generator Welder Dryer EV Charger Power Cord Adapter https://a.co/d/1vDnLRw

I have to confirm that his is a 14-30R not an L14-30R. I don't know why I didn't take a picture of it!

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[kdonnel]

If it is a 14-30R than that is a compatible adapter.

 

[Fremont Kid]

Is your goal to charge your EV or to avoid using the Ford mobile charger?
If the cable at your brother's cabin is already AWG 6 then just connect the 15-30 plug. If not, run a AWG 6 cable and terminate to a 15-30 plug. AWG 6 can accommodate even more load in case a more powerful charger is added in the future.

Am I missing something? Just trying to think of ways to simplify your solution.

Remember, the circuit at the main panel is the source which you want to maintain as much as possible. Any reduction from this source can, and probably will, increase resistance in the form of heat.

 

[music_cities]

Is your goal to charge your EV or to avoid using the Ford mobile charger?
If the cable at your brother's cabin is already AWG 6 then just connect the 15-30 plug. If not, run a AWG 6 cable and terminate to a 15-30 plug. AWG 6 can accommodate even more load in case a more powerful charger is added in the future.

Am I missing something? Just trying to think of ways to simplify your solution.

Remember, the circuit at the main panel is the source which you want to maintain as much as possible. Any reduction from this source can, and probably will, increase resistance in the form of heat.

Hmm, good questions. I don't go to my brother's ski cabin very often, but I'd like to have some flexibility to charge at different locations without running new wiring at people's houses. His cabin is a good reference case that proves the Ford Mobile Charger is not a very flexible solution. To add flexibility to my rig so far I've come up with these possibilities:

1) Go the Telsa Mobile Connector route, where the charge rate is controlled by the tails, with a Tesla Tap so I can use it, and then I'd have a Tesla Tap too, handy at some hotels or other locations that have Tesla destination chargers. Sell the Ford Mobile Charger.

2) Get a charger like the Pion or Grizzl-E Mini where I can control the charge rate to match the wiring, and then get some plug adapters for it if necessary. Bonus that these can go to 40Amps, vs the 32Amp max on the Ford Mobile Charger. Sell the Ford Mobile Charger.

3) Take advantage of the 240V/12Amp option in the Ford Mobile Charger, by acquiring some plug adapters, at least it's twice as fast as L1 charging.

4) Buy a supplemental 24Amp charger or 16Amp charger with different plugs, and keep the Ford Mobile Charger for the 32Amps.

 

[Adventureboy]

Keep in mind that if you use the 120v head on the ford adapter and feed it 240v, it puts out 2.88kW instead of the 1.32kW when fed by 120v. (Verify that he did install a 240v circuit and not a 30a 120v)

To make this work simply cut the head off a small / cheap extension cord and wire it up to one of these so the 120v charging head can plug into it and receive 240v.
https://www.amazon.com/ELEGRP-L14-30P-Generator-Grounding-Industrial/dp/B08CXQSYBD/

I would warn you that you need a GOOD extension cord, not a cheap one. The Ford Mobile charger will draw a consistent 12 amps for hours if connected this way and if the cord isn't heavy enough gauge, it will be a fire hazard. 12 AWG preferably or more, especially if you need 20 ft or more. Not all extension cords are created equal and EV charging will test them with a very consistent power draw for hours at a time. 12 gauge like @kdonnel. and mark the normal 5-15R end with a warning tag to keep others from trying to plug 120v stuff into it.

 

[kdonnel]

I would warn you that you need a GOOD extension cord, not a cheap one. The Ford Mobile charger will draw a consistent 12 amps for hours if connected this way and if the cord isn't heavy enough gauge, it will be a fire hazard. 12 AWG preferably or more, especially if you need 20 ft or more. Not all extension cords are created equal and EV charging will test them with a very consistent power draw for hours at a time. 12 gauge like @kdonnel. and mark the normal 5-15R end with a warning tag to keep others from trying to plug 120v stuff into it.

I would add that if you keep your extension cord on a roll like I do, to unroll the entire cord even if you only need a few feet. Otherwise the cord rolled up on itself will generate a lot of heat and potentially be a hazard.

 

[Hammered]

I would warn you that you need a GOOD extension cord, not a cheap one. The Ford Mobile charger will draw a consistent 12 amps for hours if connected this way and if the cord isn't heavy enough gauge, it will be a fire hazard. 12 AWG preferably or more, especially if you need 20 ft or more. Not all extension cords are created equal and EV charging will test them with a very consistent power draw for hours at a time. 12 gauge like @kdonnel. and mark the normal 5-15R end with a warning tag to keep others from trying to plug 120v stuff into it.

Depends on the length. People often say this not understanding the variables. The weak point ends up being the quality of the head, not the gauge of the cable. 14gauge is more than adequate to 50' for a sustained 12 amp load.

 

[Adventureboy]

Depends on the length. People often say this not understanding the variables. The weak point ends up being the quality of the head, not the gauge of the cable. 14gauge is more than adequate to 50' for a sustained 12 amp load.

100% agree about the quality of the ends - that is the most likely failure point. I personally would not use 14 gauge for 50' EV charging although, for the most part, it should be fine. If you plan on using it regularly, I still recommend 12 gauge as the resistance will be much lower and the voltage drop across the cord to the charger will be less giving you a bit faster (and safer) charge rates. It can mean a difference 5-10% on your kw charge rate.

 

[music_cities]

While we’re here, perhaps I should mention how enamoured I am with the Quick220 idea, wandering around parking garages or peoples houses plugging an extension cord into different outlets until I find two non-gfci 120V outlets on two different poles, and then using this device so I can charge at 240V/12amps:

https://quick220.com/products/model-a220-20d-20-amp-power-supply-straight-blade-outlet

Some people think I’m a fool for wanting to do this. They think I’d be better off wandering down to their electrical panel with a breaker in hand and doing a quick courtesy install of a NEMA 6-20 receptacle somewhere near their panel, then running a 6-20 extension cord over to a charger that can charge at 16amps (or 12Amps). But I’m more afraid of opening a panel than I am of wandering around the house or parkade with an extension cord.

 

[Hammered]

100% agree about the quality of the ends - that is the most likely failure point. I personally would not use 14 gauge for 50' EV charging although, for the most part, it should be fine. If you plan on using it regularly, I still recommend 12 gauge as the resistance will be much lower and the voltage drop across the cord to the charger will be less giving you a bit faster (and safer) charge rates. It can mean a difference 5-10% on your kw charge rate.

The cost for passing 2.88kW through a 14 gauge 50' extension cord is 90 watts vs 45 watts with a 12ga cord. It's a 1.5% difference.

 

[Adventureboy]

The cost for passing 2.88kW through a 14 gauge 50' extension cord is 90 watts vs 45 watts with a 12ga cord. It's a 1.5% difference.

It is worth the discussion on the variables for educational purposes

Consider that extension cords are not solid copper. Stranded wire suffers 20-50% higher attenuation than solid wire and has a lower amperage capacity which means you need to step up the size of the wire when moving from solid to stranded. A 50-foot extension cord is equivalent to 100 feet of electrical travel out to the equipment and back across two conductors. With the additional attenuation and lower current capacity of stranded wire, there is quite a bit more than 1.5% losses between 12ga and 14ga across the 100-foot path it must follow.

Consider the cost - The losses across the cord are lost as heat and cost you money. Let's consider the cost of a best-case scenario with 1.5% losses. 45 watts * 8 hours * 365 days is about 131kwh per year. At say $0.15 per kWh, your choice to use a good 14ga cord vs a good 12ga cord will cost you $20 per year in additional losses if you use your EV daily and charge at this rate. I would argue it is several times more for the reasons above.

Cheap light cords cost you more in $ and risk for high constant electrical draw like EV charging. I'll stick by 12ga as a minimum here. A 14ga extension cord is a causal, light-use cord and should only be used to get you out of a pinch when charging your EV. Keep the cord as short as possible since longer cords cost you money in losses and generate more heat. If you are going to use this to charge an EV daily, this is not an item to cheap out on - spend a few extra bucks and get the better cord - it will be safer and cheaper.

 

[Maquis]

Consider that extension cords are not solid copper. Stranded wire suffers 20-50% higher attenuation than solid wire and has a lower amperage capacity which means you need to step up the size of the wire when moving from solid to stranded.

That’s absolutely incorrect. The cross sectional area of a given gauge is identical between solid and stranded conductors. The NEC ampacity tables make no distinction, either.

 

[Hammered]

It is worth the discussion on the variables for educational purposes

Consider that extension cords are not solid copper. Stranded wire suffers 20-50% higher attenuation than solid wire and has a lower amperage capacity which means you need to step up the size of the wire when moving from solid to stranded. A 50-foot extension cord is equivalent to 100 feet of electrical travel out to the equipment and back across two conductors. With the additional attenuation and lower current capacity of stranded wire, there is quite a bit more than 1.5% losses between 12ga and 14ga across the 100-foot path it must follow.

Consider the cost - The losses across the cord are lost as heat and cost you money. Let's consider the cost of a best-case scenario with 1.5% losses. 45 watts * 8 hours * 365 days is about 131kwh per year. At say $0.15 per kWh, your choice to use a good 14ga cord vs a good 12ga cord will cost you $20 per year in additional losses if you use your EV daily and charge at this rate. I would argue it is several times more for the reasons above.

Cheap light cords cost you more in $ and risk for high constant electrical draw like EV charging. I'll stick by 12ga as a minimum here. A 14ga extension cord is a causal, light-use cord and should only be used to get you out of a pinch when charging your EV. Keep the cord as short as possible since longer cords cost you money in losses and generate more heat. If you are going to use this to charge an EV daily, this is not an item to cheap out on - spend a few extra bucks and get the better cord - it will be safer and cheaper.

You're misunderstanding the use-case here. These are charge at friend/relative/other locations. This isn't an at-home solution. "light use" isn't a thing for cord selection -- frequency of use doesn't make a larger gauge better. You size the conductor to suit the purpose. Plugs themselves wear out. For this use-case the female end should be replaced every 365 uses. Receptacles wear out and are a leading cause of home electrical fires.

 

[tuminatr]

I bought an adjustable amperage EVSE for situations such as this.

https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Ele...fos.c3015c4a-46bb-44b9-81a4-dc28e6d374b3&th=1

or this is the one I wanted but I went cheap

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1348788833...5F3H2E&hash=item1f67686e0b:g:KXYAAOSw-IJjvHTg

then an adaptor

https://www.amazon.com/ONETAK-Compa...d=1707860600&sprefix=14-30+to+,aps,134&sr=8-5

 

[Adventureboy]

That’s absolutely incorrect. The cross-sectional area of a given gauge is identical between solid and stranded conductors. The NEC ampacity tables make no distinction, either.

My main concern is making sure the folks reading this forum are not underestimating the implications of using a light extension cord to charge their EVs.

Not trying to argue with you. You can believe what you like. My math is not wrong, nor are my facts. The stranded wire needs to be a higher gauge to carry the same amperage regardless of what NEC lets you get away with. Here is a typical cross-sectional area of a standard 7-strand wire vs a solid wire of the same gauge. It's an exaggeration since there are many more strands in a typical extension cord, but the cross-sectional areas are not the same.

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