The New Tesla / NACS Charging Connector Explained

[TheSteelRider]

I think this video unintentionally explained why the announcement from Ford and others seemed to hint that we would have access to only a limited number of Tesla supercharger stations, and not all Tesla superchargers.

TL;DR

1. The current Telsa adapter essentially uses the J1772 + Chademo protocol (actually CAN). Automakers have *NOT* signed up for this
2. The new NACS standard essentially uses the J1772 + CCS (PLC - Power Line Communication). THIS is what automakers have signed up for

With that in mind, Alex notes that current Tesla superchargers without the magic dock only support that first configuration.

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[generaltso]

With that in mind, Alex notes that current Tesla superchargers without the magic dock only support that first configuration.

V3 Superchargers support the CCS protocol. V2 Superchargers don’t.

 

[TheSteelRider]

V3 Superchargers support the CCS protocol. V2 Superchargers don’t.

And for the uninformed idiots like me, can you clarify how "magic dock" relates to that? E.g., does "magic dock" only exist on v3?

 

[generaltso]

And for the uninformed idiots like me, can you clarify how "magic dock" relates to that? E.g., does "magic dock" only exist on v3?

All of the magic dock sites are V3. But there are only around a dozen of them in the country out of around 12,000 V3 plugs.

 

[kodiakng]

usually love alex's videos but this one is complete misinformation. he's confusing things all up and down the stack: the connector (J1772, CCS1, tesla/NACS) is separate from the communication protocol used between the EVSE and EV.

really, he should delete it and start all over again - it would take a longer video to debunk what he gets wrong and explain why.

 

[TheSteelRider]

usually love alex's videos but this one is complete misinformation. he's confusing things all up and down the stack: the connector (J1772, CCS1, tesla/NACS) is separate from the communication protocol used between the EVSE and EV.

Hmm, maybe I'm not following what you are saying? The entire video is him talking about the fact that there are different protocols being run over the same physical connector, and that Ford et. al. have only signed up for one of the protocols not the other. E.g., that the protocol is different than the connector. He also gives an example of a different physical connector (Tesla, CCS) using the same protocol.

In fact, he drives this home in a picture at timestamp 3:12:

 

[kodiakng]

In fact, he drives this home in a picture at timestamp 3:12:
View attachment 106272

which part of the above picture describes the communication protocol in use on each? showing the physical connector style in an equation doesn't make a useful diagram for representing the communication that happens.

short on time tonight but may expand on this tomorrow unless someone else beats me to it.

 

[TheSteelRider]

which part of the above picture describes the communication protocol in use on each? showing the physical connector style in an equation doesn't make a useful diagram for representing the communication that happens.

short on time tonight but may expand on this tomorrow unless someone else beats me to it.

I would recommend you listen to the video again, perhaps. He explains that the same connector is running either the same / similar protocol as CHAdeMO (CAN) or the same / similar protocol as CCS (PLC). He explains this several times. E.g., in the audio he is explaining the protocols.

Right after that screen, at timesamp 3:54-ish, he is explaining the protocols that run on the connector

And he goes on for the next few minutes explaining the different protocols ALREADY IN USE by the same Tesla connector.

I'm very interested in your point of view, but it really sounds exactly the same as what Alex is saying, e.g., that different protocols can be run on the same physical connector, and the same protocol can be run on different connectors.

 

[hartmms]

Yes, let's set aside connectors and talk only protocols. From what I gather here:

Tesla v2 charger = ??? protocol. ??? installed in the wild.
Tesla v3 charger = CCS protocol. ~12k installed in the wild.
Mach E vehicle = ??? protocol

If there is a large population of both v2 and v3, I'd hope that the adapter Ford will develop supports both. Otherwise, imagine the average lay person having to figure out if a given super charger site is v3 because that is the only one our cars would work on.

If the adapter supports both charger protocols, it's gonna have to be an active adapter with a micro-controller that translates one protocol to the other. That will certainly add to the complexity here.

 

[kennethjk]

I think this video unintentionally explained why the announcement from Ford and others seemed to hint that we would have access to only a limited number of Tesla supercharger stations, and not all Tesla superchargers.

TL;DR

1. The current Telsa adapter essentially uses the J1772 + Chademo protocol (actually CAN). Automakers have *NOT* signed up for this
2. The new NACS standard essentially uses the J1772 + CCS (PLC - Power Line Communication). THIS is what automakers have signed up for

With that in mind, Alex notes that current Tesla superchargers without the magic dock only support that first configuration.

So, does this mean that very few existing Tesla Superchargers will be able to work with our cars come next spring when the new adapter is out?

 

[TheSteelRider]

Yes, let's set aside connectors and talk only protocols. From what I gather here:

Tesla v2 charger = ??? protocol. ??? installed in the wild.
Tesla v3 charger = CCS protocol. ~12k installed in the wild.
Mach E vehicle = ??? protocol

If there is a large population of both v2 and v3, I'd hope that the adapter Ford will develop supports both. Otherwise, imagine the average lay person having to figure out if a given super charger site is v3 because that is the only one our cars would work on.

If the adapter supports both charger protocols, it's gonna have to be an active adapter with a micro-controller that translates one protocol to the other. That will certainly add to the complexity here.

Alex claims in the video:

Tesla v2 charger = CHAdeMO (CAN) protocol. ??? installed in the wild.
Tesla v3 charger = CCS (PLC) protocol. ~12k installed in the wild.
Mach E vehicle = CCS (PLC) protocol

 

[generaltso]

If there is a large population of both v2 and v3, I'd hope that the adapter Ford will develop supports both. Otherwise, imagine the average lay person having to figure out if a given super charger site is v3 because that is the only one our cars would work on.

Our cars will only work on V3 (and V4 when they get installed).

 

[digdug52]

What I know is the following:

V2 Superchargers support only the old Tesla protocol using the CAN.
V3 Superchargers support both the old Tesla protocol and the CCS protocol.

My 2018 is not compatible with the CCS protocol and will require a retrofit to be able to use the Tesla CCS to NACS adapter. I am still waiting for this to be available for older Model 3 and Model Y vehicles. I am not sure when they were changed to be CCS compatible other than late 2020 to sometime in 2021. I will not even be able to use any NACS plug on when they become available on the non-Tesla networks until I get the retrofit.

As stated above, the adapter Tesla is designing and will be available through Ford will only work on V3 and future V4 superchargers as those support the CSS protocol. I would assume the same applies to other car manufacturers that have signed agreements to use the Tesla Supercharger network.
The question will be when Ford and other manufacturers start installing NACS ports on their vehicles. Will they only be able to use V3 and V4 Superchargers or handle the old Tesla protocol as well on the V2 units. My guess would be no because of the extra software development cost involved.

 

[kennethjk]

Our cars will only work on V3 (and V4 when they get installed).

What % of Tesla SC are V3? My guess is small, if this is correct the adapters will be useless to us, correct?

 

[generaltso]

What % of Tesla SC are V3? My guess is small, if this is correct the adapters will be useless to us, correct?

I don‘t know the percentage, but there are 12,000 V3 stations, so the number is not small. That’s what they’ve been installing since 2019.

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