The New Tesla / NACS Charging Connector Explained

[thekat03]

Unfortunately it seems like it's more urban stations and fewer rural ones that are the V3's, in the small sampling I've done. I don't care about urban DCFC. That's a waste of resources to me. I need them on road trip routes. And the place I REALLY need an SC backup to a bad EA station is Green River UT. No DCFC for 100 miles either direction on I-70. But figures, the SC station there is only V2.

It appears that Efficiency Maine is going to get the Tesla version 2 Superchargers in Augusta, Maine, upgraded to be both NACS and CCS1. It's the capital of the state, but for about a year, it had no functioning DCFC options, since the local EVgo kept having issues (damaged pins, whiffs of electronics burning). We have an expensive Hyundai dealership DCFC, and EVgo may have replaced their single DCFC station, but we are hoping the upgrade to the Tesla Superchargers will be upgrading to magic docks, both for faster speeds for the Teslas who go there, and the CCS1 access for the other EVs. I hope more rural version 2 superchargers get replaced with magic docks as well, especially in areas that are popular throughways for distance travel.

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[generaltso]

If Elsie The Cow marketed an upcoming "gallon jug of milk" that, in fact, only contained a little over 1/2 gallon of milk (~76 oz) I think that warrants at least a comment about marketing wank, no?

Is that why my half-gallons of ice cream are always only 1.5 quarts?

 

[dbsb3233]

my own tea leaf reading:

common supposition: tesla's cybertruck is expected to be an 800V architecture
fact: none of tesla's current NA superchargers are 800V

assuming (and we know where that gets us) the common supposition is true, how quickly do you think they are going to deploy their shiny new v4 superchargers to support their new white whale?

As amazing as Tesla has been at rolling out chargers and stations quickly, I expect to be disappointed at V4 deployment. They haven't even started in the US yet, and just barely started in Europe. They're still building new V3 stations here. And 39% of the existing ones are still V1 or V2.

So on one hand they're faster than anyone else, but on the other it's still a massive lift at that scale. Probably be years before many of those become V4s. And of course the problem with *some* getting upgraded is that is does us no good unless we're lucky enough for it to be on our route.

As for the Cybertruck, I'm surprised we haven't gotten final word on pack voltage yet. Lots of speculation on an 800, 900, or 1000v architecture, but it could just be 400 still.

 

[TheSteelRider]

So on one hand they're faster than anyone else, but on the other it's still a massive lift at that scale. Probably be years before many of those become V4s. And of course the problem with *some* getting upgraded is that is does us no good unless we're lucky enough for it to be on our route.

Yeah, the DC fast chargers along routes still need to be built out, but I'm still convinced that the ultimate end-goal for electrification will be A/C destination chargers EVERWHERE. And, I mean everywhere. At most grocery store / mall / restaurant parking lots, 25% or more of the spaces should have at least a 120v A/C. This would allow owners to follow the ABC's of EV - Always Be Charging.

Add to that, eventually all new houses / apartments / condos, etc. should be built out with 240v capability for every resident. Eventually, when plugs are as ubiquitous as cars themselves, then we'll finally be ready for EV adoption

 

[superdave80]

At most grocery store / mall / restaurant parking lots, 25% or more of the spaces should have at least a 120v A/C.

Nobody stays at any of those places long enough to make a 120v outlet worth the time and money to install 120v outlets. It's barely worth it for L2 chargers. Where we REALLY will need to add L2 chargers is where people work, as this will help out those that have no place to charge at home (apartments, for example).

 

[dbsb3233]

Nobody stays at any of those places long enough to make a 120v outlet worth the time and money to install 120v outlets. It's barely worth it for L2 chargers. Where we REALLY will need to add L2 chargers is where people work, as this will help out those that have no place to charge at home (apartments, for example).

I can concede that work is sometimes a good choice too, even though it's got a downside -- it's usually peak time (or semi-peak) charging that's bad for the grid. (Unless it's in a jurisdiction with excessive solar, but that's rare.)

That's another reason I'm not high on "ABC" with L1/L2 chargers at stores and the like. Bad for the grid, and they're a recipe for conflict, especially if it's free.

IMO the overwhelming majority of L1/L2 charging needs to be where people sleep for this all to work conveniently and effectively for most EV owners (houses, apartment/condo lots, hotels, etc). There will always need to be some exceptions, but there's so many advantages to charging overnight where you sleep, for price, for the good of the grid, for convenience, better for the battery than DCFC, etc.

 

[superdave80]

it's usually peak time (or semi-peak) charging that's bad for the grid. (Unless it's in a jurisdiction with excessive solar, but that's rare.)

Actually (here in California, most EVs of any state) they WANT you to charge between 9a-3p due to lots of solar and not tons of demand yet.

 

[dbsb3233]

Actually (here in California, most EVs of any state) they WANT you to charge between 9a-3p due to lots of solar and not tons of demand yet.

Yes, that's the "unless" exception I noted. But that's far from the norm for most of the country.

 

[ChehRob]

I am curious about GM and Ford (etc) joining NACS. I suspect that Tesla could have asked that in return they build about the same number of chargers per EV that Tesla has. And put their name on them. This would ensure quality and quantity control.

 

[dbsb3233]

I am curious about GM and Ford (etc) joining NACS. I suspect that Tesla could have asked that in return they build about the same number of chargers per EV that Tesla has. And put their name on them. This would ensure quality and quantity control.

That Ford and GM build chargers? That would defeat the purpose. The whole reason that Ford and GM made a deal to use the SC network was because all other networks have low dependability relative to SCs.

It doesn't make sense for all automakers to build their own DCFC charging networks anyway. The goal needs to universality (like gas). Any vehicle using any charger. That maximizes revenue for the chargers and availability for consumers. The only reason that Tesla built their own network was that they had no choice as the first major EV maker. Chicken & egg problem for them.

 

[kodiakng]

I can concede that work is sometimes a good choice too, even though it's got a downside -- it's usually peak time (or semi-peak) charging that's bad for the grid. (Unless it's in a jurisdiction with excessive solar, but that's rare.)

That's another reason I'm not high on "ABC" with L1/L2 chargers at stores and the like. Bad for the grid, and they're a recipe for conflict, especially if it's free.

IMO the overwhelming majority of L1/L2 charging needs to be where people sleep for this all to work conveniently and effectively for most EV owners (houses, apartment/condo lots, hotels, etc). There will always need to be some exceptions, but there's so many advantages to charging overnight where you sleep, for price, for the good of the grid, for convenience, better for the battery than DCFC, etc.

agree on these points for sure.

when i'm out and about the use of a L2 charger just doesn't help enough to offset the time finding the charger and plugging in/unplugging for even the longest stop at a store, library, etc. maybe a movie.

i may be the only one but i really don't relish the idea of leaving my car plugged in at a parking lot with lots of people/kid/cart/etc traffic around the charging port. it sticks out, has a cord attached that people can trip over, etc and accidents happen that i would just rather avoid.

there is zero chance i'll plug in at a random L1 charger unless i'm on my last watt of energy.

 

[superdave80]

Yes, that's the "unless" exception I noted. But that's far from the norm for most of the country.

But 'most' of the country doesn't have EVs. California/Florida/Texas are the top three EV markets and have about 50% of all EVs in the US all by themselves.

California/Florida/Texas are the top three solar generating states in the US, outputting about 50% of all solar power, and continuing to grow their solar power generation.

Charging EVs during the day with solar power is becoming the rule, not the exception.

 

[dbsb3233]

But 'most' of the country doesn't have EVs. California/Florida/Texas are the top three EV markets and have about 50% of all EVs in the US all by themselves.

California/Florida/Texas are the top three solar generating states in the US, outputting about 50% of all solar power, and continuing to grow their solar power generation.

Charging EVs during the day with solar power is becoming the rule, not the exception.

Those are the 3 biggest states by population too, and 3 of the 4 biggest economies, so of course they have the most EVs, like they probably have the most cars period. EVs do tend to work better in warm weather climates than cold too. But EV market share is surely climbing in all 50 states, and will likely continue climbing.

I'm not so sure TX and FL have excess solar capacity like we hear of CA having (heard they end up having to dump a bunch of it cheap to AZ at times). Nor the other 47 states. In the exception of a place having excess solar to dump in the morning/midday, fine. But I suspect that's far more the exception than the norm across the US.

 

[ChehRob]

That Ford and GM build chargers? That would defeat the purpose. The whole reason that Ford and GM made a deal to use the SC network was because all other networks have low dependability relative to SCs.

It doesn't make sense for all automakers to build their own DCFC charging networks anyway. The goal needs to universality (like gas). Any vehicle using any charger. That maximizes revenue for the chargers and availability for consumers. The only reason that Tesla built their own network was that they had no choice as the first major EV maker. Chicken & egg problem for them.

I suspect that Tesla is exacting some sort of price for that access. What I suggested would benefit both Tesla and the other car manufacturers.

 

[dbsb3233]

I suspect that Tesla is exacting some sort of price for that access. What I suggested would benefit both Tesla and the other car manufacturers.

I assume Tesla got something in exchange in those deals as well. We haven't really heard the details, and there were some hints that they really aren't getting anything other than the extra charging revenue (and a little profit from selling adapters). But seems logical that there's more to it than that.

Although if Tesla really has done what no one else has achieved yet -- crossed the profitability line on DCFC -- more charging revenue may be a sufficient enough incentive.

Drivers just want more DCFC in more places that works, of course. But that doesn't mean it makes business sense for Ford or GM to build it. They recognized that the easiest way to provide more and better DCFC for their customers was simply gaining access to the existing network that's the gold standard. Pretty easy decision for them. The trickier decision had to be Tesla's, as they're giving up their #1 selling point (exclusive access to the best DCFC network). But they have said all along that they planned to eventually open it up. And they still get some positives out of it.

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